# Failing all around **URL:** \ **Category:** The Nine Hammers Tavern - General Chat\ **Created:** [December 18, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145 "2021-12-18T16:26:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ErickT](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/erickt/32/7168_2.png) [@ErickT](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ErickT)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/1 "2021-12-18T16:26:01Z")
A bit of a rant. I feel like I am failing all around. Had the Shovel today.One of my favorite workouts and can get through both sets no problem. Not today. Felt like I was breathing through a straw. Bailed after the 4th sprint in the 2nd set. I struggle to complete the Inspiration z3/sub-threshold workouts. An hour and a half with no recovery intervals? I find myself bailing after 45 minutes due to discomfort and the video not holding my interest. While others are saying the workouts have been made easier, I’m finding the opposite to be true. Maybe I’m doing FF and HM wrong which is making the workouts harder than they should be??? Over the last two years my average race speed has dropped 2mph, hitting distance goals has become a struggle, my Strava fitness score has dropped into the upper 30s, and my numbers, while incrementally improving are stuck at beginner level fitness for FTP. I usually follow a plan, taking a week or two off between. Rarely miss a workout. I’ve done the MTP many times and always have a big goal each year. It seems to me I need to do something do different. I don’t know what it is. ---
**Author:** ![CPT\_A](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/cpt_a/32/15342_2.png) [@CPT\_A](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/CPT_A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/2 "2021-12-18T16:53:35Z")
@ErickT you sound tired, man. How are you health/stress/life-wise? Cause I’ve been there, and we’ve all had a tough couple years. I’m no professional, but i’m old(ish) and wise(ish). sounds a lot like chronic overtraining, stress, burnout, depression. Again, been there. good that you can post here, sometimes perspective is hard from the bottom of the well. maybe talk to a doc or someone IRL? when was the last time you had a physical and blood labs taken? Regardless, cut yourself a break. You sound disciplined and motivated, so you can get through this. 👍🏻 ---
**Author:** ![TTDragon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/ttdragon/32/11633_2.png) [@TTDragon](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/TTDragon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 5:31pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/3 "2021-12-18T17:31:52Z")
I agree, sounds like burn out. Take some time off, enjoy the holidays then start fresh. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/4 "2021-12-18T18:39:53Z")
> [@ErickT](#): > > It seems to me I need to do something do different. I don’t know what it is. @ErickT Hang in there! Seems like you need some fun - and something that isn’t measurable. Maybe forget the metrics and just find your happy place and go from there. It may allow you to level set and find the right path forward. ---
**Author:** ![washsaint](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/washsaint/32/440_2.png) [@washsaint](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/washsaint)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 6:40pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/5 "2021-12-18T18:40:33Z")
Same as others have said…sounds like burn out. Take a few weeks off, rediscover your love for training and bet you will be surprised at the results. Overtraining is a real thing. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![leebo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@leebo](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/leebo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/6 "2021-12-18T19:19:46Z")
+1 on the overtraining/burnout. Perhaps it isn’t, but I’ve definitely been there and what you’re saying sounds familiar. Take a couple of weeks to have fun, eat and drink what you want (within your own reason 😁) - it’s the perfect time of the year for it - and reassess your goals. Some would suggest the MTP for this but honestly I think it’s more about clearing your head and resetting. Even the pros have an off season of eating what they shouldn’t and sitting on a beach. In one of the new pod casts Sirs Neal and Mac discuss time away the bike and, from memory, they suggest they’d expect at least 4 or 5 weeks a year totally off it. One final thing, I don’t dig the Inspiration vids either. A couple I’ve managed but in general I’ve struggled with them and as the workouts themselves are relatively easy it’s hard to stay motivated. My recent trick has been the Amazon All or Nothing series with various sports teams. For me there’s just enough interesting stuff and sports clips to keep me going. Good luck and let us know how you get on. ---
**Author:** ![Shaned1972](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Shaned1972](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Shaned1972)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:28pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/7 "2021-12-18T19:28:25Z")
Time off and and a chance to get refreshed and start ove @ErickT is always a good start maybe you just need a break from SYSTM and try something else like FulGaz or Rouvy you don’t need to subscribe to them but just enjoy their free trials for a couple of weeks and just ride without worrying about times and power. This is what I’m gonna do until the middle of January then start back into another plan. Hopefully you can find out what’s wrong and take steps to rectify it 👍👍 ---
**Author:** ![leebo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@leebo](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/leebo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/8 "2021-12-18T19:37:57Z")
@JSampson just linked this in another thread: [How Long Does it Take to Lose Your Fitness? - The Knowledge](https://www.wahoofitness.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-to-lose-fitness/) Hot off the press! It doesn’t exactly address @ErickT 's original frustrations, but it may help put in to perspective the idea of taking a week or 2 off ---
**Author:** ![CPT\_A](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/cpt_a/32/15342_2.png) [@CPT\_A](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/CPT_A)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 7:39pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/9 "2021-12-18T19:39:47Z")
> [@leebo](#): > > One final thing, I don’t dig the Inspiration vids either. I will again plug the GCN+ and Race TV subscription. Money well spent. ---
**Author:** ![leebo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@leebo](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/leebo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/10 "2021-12-18T20:52:30Z")
Rouvy is a great way of having time away without being off the bike. Just watch yourself if you’re trying to take it easy and recover. One slip and you’re suddenly trying to race up the Zoncolan or similar. Just enjoy the views! ---
**Author:** ![Heretic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/heretic/32/2329_2.png) [@Heretic](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Heretic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 10:13pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/11 "2021-12-18T22:13:11Z")
Joel Friel distinguishes overtraining from overreaching. Overtraining is a serious condition, it can lead, even in professional athletes, to serious, long term problems. Overreaching, which is what it sounds like you have, is the warning stage for overtraining. Try taking one week off the bike, and see what happens. As the Recharger workout says, try to reconnect with why you like bicycle riding. How you react to Relaxing to Recover (which I do every week) is often a signal. If you feelings persist, you might want to check with your doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Craig.Quarmby](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/craig.quarmby/32/6489_2.png) [@Craig.Quarmby](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Craig.Quarmby)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/12 "2021-12-18T23:04:35Z")
I echo what others are saying about overtraining. But if you haven’t had one I’d definitely get a medical check as per @CPT_A - you mention a drop over the last 2 years and that may indicate something else is going on. Definitely worth checking - even if just making sure all is working as it should be. ---
**Author:** ![ErickT](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/erickt/32/7168_2.png) [@ErickT](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ErickT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 12:58am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/13 "2021-12-19T00:58:13Z")
Thank you @CPT_A, @TTDragon, @leebo, @JSampson, @Craig.Quarmby, @bwashsaint, @Heretic, @Shaned1972 I hear what you are saying on over reaching/over training, fatigue, needing a break, fun… > [@CPT\_A](#): > > I’m no professional, but i’m old(ish) and wise(ish). sounds a lot like chronic overtraining, stress, burnout, depression. Again, been there. Very well could be. I’ve had a very full plate lately. > [@TTDragon](#): > > I agree, sounds like burn out. Take some time off, enjoy the holidays then start fresh. > [@washsaint](#): > > rediscover your love for training and bet you will be surprised at the results. Overtraining is a real thing. This is a good idea > [@leebo](#): > > Take a couple of weeks to have fun, eat and drink what you want (within your own reason 😁) - it’s the perfect time of the year for it - and reassess your goals. Sounds good to me! Why not enjoy? > [@Shaned1972](#): > > maybe you just need a break from SYSTM and try something else like FulGaz or Rouvy I’ve wondered this. I’ve been enjoying the new strength workouts tho! > [@leebo](#): > > just linked this in another thread: [How Long Does it Take to Lose Your Fitness? - The Knowledge](https://www.wahoofitness.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-to-lose-fitness/) This is a good read. I think the fear of losing fitness is something to work on > [@CPT\_A](#): > > I will again plug the GCN+ and Race TV subscription. Money well spent. I took at look at this. It appears to be all road cycling which I don’t do or get excited about. I did watch the UCI 2021 Pumptrack championship on Redbull during a no vid a few weeks ago. Super impressive. > [@leebo](#): > > Just watch yourself if you’re trying to take it easy and recover. One slip and you’re suddenly trying to race up the Zoncolan or similar. Just enjoy the views! I know some people using Rouvy and they like the racing a lot. > [@Heretic](#): > > How you react to Relaxing to Recover (which I do every week) is often a signal. I need to dust this one off. > [@Craig.Quarmby](#): > > you mention a drop over the last 2 years and that may indicate something else is going on Could be. Thank you all. ---
**Author:** ![ErickT](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/erickt/32/7168_2.png) [@ErickT](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ErickT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 1:32am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/14 "2021-12-19T01:32:35Z")
Looking at my Whoop data. I’m not a data scientist, but I am seeing some interesting things looking at the 6 month graphs. HRV range appears to be narrowing and trending down Resting HR is trending up 4 bpm While I’ve been on Whoop under 6 months, recovery scores seem to be 50/50 between green and yellow. Only 2 reds Max HR is up 2 bpm Day strain is generally between 10-18 ![Screen Shot 2021-12-18 at 5.34.28 PM](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/thesufferfest/original/2X/9/90ee58a6b0127d6e3a15c4fab55570822d3ee9bb.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![DameLisa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/damelisa/32/8327_2.png) [@DameLisa](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/DameLisa)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 5:25am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/15 "2021-12-19T05:25:21Z")
As well as some time off, get full bloodworm done. Hormones, iron, Zinc, VitaminD, Calcium everything. Talk to a proper sports specialist Doc, my GP was useless. I’ve got a women’s health specialist and my dietician working together to sort me out and experiencing a noticeable difference just a couple of weeks later. I was battling for years trying to get marginally fitter but just going through a decline, getting slower. Turns out my iron was under 20, should be 150-300, my VitD is at rock bottom also, and while my hormones are all within “normal” range, a specialist Doc picked up that they’re not proportional. I feel so much better now that those levels are trending upwards. Will take a long time to get them where they should be but has made a huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![AkaPete](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/akapete/32/10384_2.png) [@AkaPete](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/AkaPete)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 1:41pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/16 "2021-12-19T13:41:47Z")
> [@DameLisa](#): > > get full **bloodworm** done. Is that a kiwi thing? Kidding aside, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![AdamS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@AdamS](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/AdamS)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 2:15pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/17 "2021-12-19T14:15:28Z")
This is rough @ErickT for sure. My 2cents is rule out the blood chemistry first. I’m not sure about a long break off the bike. But mixing in different sports could be really helpful. Something totally different than cycling. Join a rock climbing gym? Tennis lessons? Hell, go to the driving range and whack some golf balls, they usually have rental clubs. Keep riding but back the cycling off to 1-2 days per week. And get a sports massage 2x a month-self care. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![ErickT](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/erickt/32/7168_2.png) [@ErickT](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ErickT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 7:06pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/18 "2021-12-19T19:06:46Z")
That sounds hard to overcome. Did you have to follow a regimented diet? ---
**Author:** ![ErickT](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/erickt/32/7168_2.png) [@ErickT](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ErickT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 7:09pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/19 "2021-12-19T19:09:28Z")
This week is the the last week of the plan I am following. I don’t have a fear of FF, but last time was a cuss fest as I couldn’t hit the prior HM numbers. Sounds like it is ok to just recover and do a FF week later on. I’m wondering if the mid-plan HM is more of a curse then a blessing for some athletes… ---
**Author:** ![leebo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f0a364/32.png) [@leebo](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/leebo)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2021, 7:32pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145/20 "2021-12-19T19:32:49Z")
I’m finding it is. I’m a time trialist rider type so so in theory HM should be ok for me, but I’ve found that what HM gives me then nails me when I continue with my plan, then the FF at the end seems to me come out a bit down from where HM had said (FTP down a bit, MAP not far off). I’m yet to determine if it’s because I’m still knackered from several weeks of new-numbers-beasting or what, but it feels weird to get good gains in the first half of the plan then lose a bit in the second half. I’m considering just doing mid plan FFs instead, perhaps on ERG to let me “choose” the level based on how recent workouts have been. Definitely don’t sweat your test though. See it as a reset point. If you don’t get the numbers you think you “should” (there is no should), then that’s fine. It’s just the jump off point for your next step. [Next page](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/failing-all-around/15145.md?page=2)