# Full Frontal vs Half Monty **URL:** \ **Category:** Fitness Tests\ **Created:** [September 29, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702 "2022-09-29T21:58:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/1 "2022-09-29T21:58:48Z")
Hi fellow Sufferlandians, I’m scheduled for a fitness test tonight after a reasonable recovery week (working days only). After previous discussions, I’ve concluded that the FF test is more suited to me. However, this is my first FF test. And I’m unsure if I’m rested enough - completed a ride 5 days ago with a TSS = 481 and IF = 99. While my legs feel fine, I’m unsure if I’ll get the fully benefit from a 20minute effort. So my question is - would it be best to do a Half Monty in lieu of the Full Frontal? Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Isa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Isa](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Isa)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 10:40pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/2 "2022-09-29T22:40:50Z")
I didn’t find half monty at all helpful… I vote for 4dp - unless you’re badge hunting and haven’t done half monty yet. Or, if you aren’t confident you have the legs for a proper go at full frontal, why not half monty? 4dp if you want the results to matter ---
**Author:** ![TrapMeSuf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/trapmesuf/32/10401_2.png) [@TrapMeSuf](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/TrapMeSuf)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 11:04pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/3 "2022-09-29T23:04:36Z")
I’m with @Isa on this one. Do the FF. Five days should be a decent enough rest and it’s gonna hurt in any case. Do you have target numbers for the 5 and 20 minute sections? Happy suffering! ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/4 "2022-09-30T02:44:27Z")
No I have the legs (normally) and don’t have any issues pacing for 20min. I’ve also found the step test inaccurate (on this app anyway). Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/5 "2022-09-30T02:47:19Z")
Thanks. Yep leading towards the FF. Target numbers are - 5 minute = ~ 420w 20 minute = ~ 340w Though these are just a guess (taken from my most recent outdoor ride). Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/6 "2022-09-30T12:08:04Z")
@Mulletcocktail With 5 days rest you should be fine. Check out this thread for ideas on pacing. > [@I HATE the 4DP](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/i-hate-the-4dp/9911/13): > > @Tungstenisw Search Full Frontal or 4DP in the forum and there are lots of threads on this topic. You are not alone! FF is an intense experience and it takes a while to get it right - the mental prep, the pacing, the right positive chatter, proper cooling and hydration. For the days leading up to the test I keep myself focused on rest, hydration, go over my target gearing/levels and try to keep a positive mindset. I suggest practice gearing in level mode using Open 15 or 30 video in the days … ---
**Author:** ![Saddlesaur](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/saddlesaur/32/9469_2.png) [@Saddlesaur](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Saddlesaur)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 1:19pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/7 "2022-09-30T13:19:21Z")
FWIW: For testing, I always do the 7 day test plan that includes a HM on day three and the FF on day 7. The HM sets the suggested targets for the FF and I try to beat those as best as I can during the FF. I believe this gives me the most consistent results. Bonus: It’s a very solid week of workouts. ---
**Author:** ![ozmadman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/ozmadman/32/16859_2.png) [@ozmadman](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ozmadman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/8 "2022-09-30T14:23:16Z")
What sort of ride was that?? A high TSS indicates that it was a very long moderate ride but an IF of 99 means that you probably went all out for most of it??? not easy to get an IF that high. ---
**Author:** ![TrapMeSuf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/trapmesuf/32/10401_2.png) [@TrapMeSuf](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/TrapMeSuf)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/9 "2022-09-30T14:29:50Z")
That’s interesting indeed. Does that mean you have to ride for 4:50 hours at 99% of FTP? Good time for a FF test indeed, because that would indicate that the real FTP is a lot higher. ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/10 "2022-10-01T02:19:23Z")
@ozmadman & @TrapMeSuf yep I was surprises with the IFF at .99 (my error, previously commented it was 99). We rode the “dirty dozen” - 12 of the steepest hills in Hobart. ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/thesufferfest/original/2X/c/ca4dd7906d60e5679939e127960d9115f8a9bdfe.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/11 "2022-10-01T02:38:44Z")
Also, back to the test - I started out on the FF last night but canned it after the MAP block. Figure I hit it too hard. Then I completed the ramp with an increase of 10w in a month. Cheers ---
**Author:** ![ozmadman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/ozmadman/32/16859_2.png) [@ozmadman](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/ozmadman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 5:52am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/12 "2022-10-01T05:52:25Z")
Yep FF is definitely a mind game, that is continuously telling you to stop or you can’t do this or keep this up. You can, just need to get your head around it and especially after the 5 mins MAP where you immediately start thinking about the 20 minute section and how on earth are you going to get through that… ---
**Author:** ![timbo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/timbo/32/4030_2.png) [@timbo](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/timbo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 6:19am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/13 "2022-10-01T06:19:24Z")
Just did FF today and HM about 4 weeks ago. For me FF is much more of a mental and pacing game. If you think about it your doing 26 mins right on the edge. In HM there’s only 13 or so ramp steps that you’ll get through, and it’s only hard for the last couple before the doors blow off. The MAP 5 mins in FF is such a mind game!!! ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 7:01am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/14 "2022-10-01T07:01:31Z")
Yep agree. Don’t have any issues with mind games or pacing. We race up kunanyi (Mount Wellington) every year which for me is 1h15m at threshold. Just think I wasn’t ready for this one. ---
**Author:** ![timbo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/timbo/32/4030_2.png) [@timbo](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/timbo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 8:27am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/15 "2022-10-03T08:27:16Z")
I was ‘lucky’ enough to ride up kunanyi in Feb this year and then again with Nicole Frain a few weeks ago. You’re lucky to live in a very nice part of the world!! ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2022, 9:18am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/16 "2022-10-04T09:18:35Z")
Yeah it’s pretty amazing to have an Alpine climb on the edge of town. Nicole was in my grouping for the last race up there… ---
**Author:** ![WahooCoach\_Corey](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/wahoocoach_corey/32/9174_2.png) [@WahooCoach\_Corey](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/WahooCoach_Corey)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/17 "2022-10-05T00:29:53Z")
nice work Guy ---
**Author:** ![Mulletcocktail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mulletcocktail](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Mulletcocktail)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:18am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/full-frontal-vs-half-monty/19702/18 "2022-10-05T08:18:14Z")
Thanks!