I wish RGT would

One thing I wish RGT would do is let me know at the beginning of a race which bot it has predetermined is going to win. I know this sounds like I am making sh!t up but look at the results screen shot. I averaged exactly TWICE the W/Kg for the 32 minutes and the bot still finished ahead of me.

I knew I was close to averaging 2x the bot but as it was pulling away I jumped on it to 3x and then 4x. It made no difference. The program said it would continue to pull away and nothing I did was going to change that.

Very Frustrating.

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Hi !
Bots are not “escaping physics” (they might have no tiredness though)

do you have the link of the event ?

  • What was the profile of the race ? If it was a pure climb, then the results are strange indeed
  • If it was a mostly flat race, and you’re way lighter than the bot, then the result is normal (100W for a 100kg bot would go faster than 80W for a 40kg rider, although 1Wkg vs 2Wkg)
  • Did you waste watts in the wheels behind bots (as in, pushing a lot of watts, but without overtaking, being blocked and breaking behind bots’ wheels ?)
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That does sound strange. I am intrigued as to what is happening.

You may well have realised this and checked, but you can see what power in Watts other riders are putting out but selecting the rider via the left hand rider list. What will let you figure out their approximate weight as well. If the course is flat or flat-ish then would be interesting to know what power output in Watts a bot would be putting out in order to pull away from you. Perhaps you could video this (if you have a device handy) so we can get a more detailed picture of what is going on.

I strongly suspect that RGT are not deliberately fixing races - that would probably be quite hard to implement given they have put a lot of effort in to making the physics fairly realistic for the rest of us, and I imagine that we’d have heard of more reports of this apparent weirdness.

It was a descent. I weigh 90Kg so I am not much lighter than anyone out there.

Did not spend a single minute drafting behind any bots.

How exactly do you do this. When the results are up there is nothing to click on to give me any more info. If I search for the specific bot and isolate that bot, still nothing. Can you provide the steps necessary to get this info? The SPEED field remains blank in all cases.

Using this link, you’ll access the past events : https://user.rgtcycling.com/events-calendar?type=month

If you can find this past race and give us the link, we’ll see the full table normally (which includes weight, watts, etc) (not sure if the bots are kept on the list though :thinking: )

For the other things:

  • “spying” the watts is only doable “live” when racing, you can do that by clicking on somebody else’s name on the ranking (left part of the screen) or using the keyboard (page up/page down)
  • I’m even more confused on what happened then if the race was downhill and you are not light :smiley: Did the bot suck other bots’ wheel for a long time and then attacked in the last part of the race ?

The link takes me to a calendar. When I click on the event and then results, only I appear. NO bots.

Not sure what you mean here. The W/Kg appears for all riders that are on the lest side of the screen when riding. Actual watts do not appear. Also, I use a laptop which is several feet away from me while riding so no opportunity to try to access other info without getting off the bike.

It was and I am not! :slightly_frowning_face: As a heavier rider I should have an advantage on a descent. Maybe the bot weighs 200Kg.

Not really from what I could see as he was running me down and not at all when he pulled away from me. It was just him, out front and slowly pulling away while doing a fraction of my W/Kg.

WAHOO RGT en AVRIL 2023 - YouTube : even if you can’t see the mouse ( :frowning: ) : at this point of the video, I click on the name of the rider (“Brisset”) from the list on the left, and what I get is a new view with

  • his watts
  • his heart rate
  • etc
    It’s displayed on top that I’m watching somebody else, and to come back to your own view, just click again, on the top of the screen, on “reset”

But indeed, without a quick access to a mouse/keyboard you can’t do that while riding.
(or maybe just for the sake of the experiment next time, and see if the bot was indeed the heavy one) (the bots do have a wide range of weights)

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@totolekoala I may give this a try as an experiment even if I have to stop riding. Thanks.

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I haven’t tried it myself but if you have a mobile running the Wahoo RGT Remote app then I think you should be able to use that to move the cursor on the screen and to cycle through the other riders. You use the ‘Remote’ option in the app. I have only tried this when using RGT on an Apple TV but I expect it will work with the screen app on a PC.

You can see a screenshot of the controls that are available in the Remote app once the ‘Remote’ button has been selected here:

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To be precise : you can click on other riders’ names during group rides and “just ride”.
In a race, I’m not sure, but you can use the “page up/page down” arrow to shift view from rider to rider

I rode the same ride last night, as a race again. I have a small keyboard I bought for my Knighthood but it did not work to get the data. Not sure if it was the keyboard (which was working for other functions) or if, as you suggest, it does not work on races. I guess the next step is to do the ride again as a group ride and not a race.

As for results, I upped my game just a bit and averaged 2.1W/Kg. I did finish first but just 3 seconds ahead of a bot with an average W/Kg of just 0.7. So exactly 3x the W/Kg over 22 miles and the difference was 3 seconds. Something in the programming is amiss.

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I wish the RGT race radio wasn’t like audio porn with people moaning through their respective efforts. Ended up muting it all the time, making it a useless feature.
I wish my RGT activities would upload directly to Garmin Connect. Having to do it manually is beyond annoying.
I wish the RGT pacing bots would maintain the stable riding pattern they had before last update. They swerve all over the place, rendering them useless for the purpose of pacing anyone.
I wish RGT never had implemented this obnoxious steering function. It will never work well (unless you have a proper steering device, and even then…), refinements that have been added did not fix issues, only brought more issues along.
I wish RGT would stop trying to compete with Zwift at being a videogame and focus on what they had at the beggining, a simple app where you could simulate riding and entertain yourself… but in a stable platform, with Garmin conectivity.
I wish…


@EdTheLizzard first welcome to the platform. Second; great post!

Thank you. I also have positive remarks about the app, not just criticisms. It’s just that lately things are not improving regarding my overall experience with RGT and I felt like leaving my small contribution for improvement here.

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There’s race bots and there’s pacer bots.

Pacer bots are simpler. For them, it assigns to each bot a random watts within the specified range (I use 80 W - 230 W in the NorCal Tue Niter), and then assigns a random mass to each bot.

The way it USED to be was that these were unrelated. The lightest bot could have the highest power. It was just luck. But the way it used to be was on the flats, weight didn’t matter, so if you made watts proportional to weight, then the lighter bots would all get dropped on the flats, even if they were all set to the same W/kg. So they did it using watts.

then for weight they had male and female bots. The male bots were heavier (but random) and the female bots were lighter. But they each used the same range of randomized power.

So what would happen would be all of the bots would stick together on the flats (with similar watts, where speed on the flats depended only on watts), but then at the first hill, all of the women bots would drop the male bots.

But everything has changed now… now speed on the flats is also affected by body size (smaller riders have less wind resistance). And i suspect that they now vary the bot power with bot weight. So it’s no longer true that the female bots automatically drop the male bots on the first climb.


At least RGT is consistent. I finished 6th today averaging 1.6 W/Kg. The riders 1st - 5th averaged 0.8 - 1.0 W/Kg. Plus I had to force close the program because, despite scheduling the ride over two hours in advance, it would not let me start the event via Ride Now. Then I had my usual delay until the last few miles when the steering would not work at all.

This is why I relegated RGT to just spinning out my legs since it is worthless as a training tool. I hate to be so critical but this is, in fact, my experience.

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What sort of course was it ?

I keep checking after rides and races and never spot the apparently weird numbers that you get on your side.
Silly question but worth checking : you entered your weight with the correct unit ? (you entered in kg and not in pounds ? :sweat_smile: )

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The second criteria is the pacing.
If the race is hilly. Then (with equal weight, etc) it’s possible to push an average of 200W and be slower than a well-paced effort (higher watts in climbs and no watts downhill/in curves) that would only average 150W, for example)
(you said that on the first example the race was downhill, but without more details it’s hard to answer)

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Other way around, entered in pounds as it should be. They program lists output in Kg when showing W/Kg.

Not sure what the issue is you are trying to uncover in your second post. The ride was a downhill and definitely not “no watts on downhill”. As a heavy rider, in the grand scheme of things, I should lead out most riders do to basic physics. When pushing 2x - 3x more W/Kg on a downhill, I should well outpace anyone my weight or less and most riders a bit heavier than I, given the significant power per Kg production. Combine the two and it simply makes no sense.

I have sent support notes while still in the program. I have sent support a video. Their last position was that power output does not mean anything on a downhill, it is of no value. When I responded asking why then do professional riders pedal on descents, I got no reply.