# Replace "sub-threshold with surges" with outdoor ride **URL:** \ **Category:** Training Plans\ **Created:** [January 26, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674 "2024-01-26T12:11:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![psxnl3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@psxnl3](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/psxnl3)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:11pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/1 "2024-01-26T12:11:21Z")
My training plans has a 2 hours “Sub-threshold with surges: 4x8” planned for the weekend. I would prefer to take this ride outdoor, however the lack of a power meter might be an issue. As this session seems to aimed at keeping the fatigue level where they are, I wonder if a 2/3 hours ride at relatively low pace could be a good substitute. I aim to include few hills, however they won’t be as close in reps as the planned ride. Any comment / suggestion? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Q](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/steve_q/32/2318_2.png) [@Steve\_Q](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Steve_Q)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 12:43pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/2 "2024-01-26T12:43:37Z")
You’ve touched on an issue I have (and probably many others too) in that I struggle to replicate structured intervals outdoors. The wind, traffic intersections, and hilly terrain in my area make it very hard which is why I personally did not see having the ability to push workouts to my head unit as a particularly good thing. For others though, this was wonderful. I suspect that I’m trying to be too precise in matching the timing and effort levels of the prescribed workouts and that is probably something you need to keep in mind too. The body is not perfect, so mixing things up a little should be fine. I suggest you look at the workout profile and try incorporate a few of those surges in your ride. Also, read the workout notes about heart rate and try to let that guide you in terms of intensity. Drifting off the plan **occasionally** due to good/bad weather or other reasons is not going to ruin the overall outcome. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:03pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/3 "2024-01-26T13:03:27Z")
> [@psxnl3](#): > > Any comment / suggestion? @psxnl3 I usually ride by RPE with the outdoor workouts. It isn’t perfect. Just doing an endurance workout for a set time is fine as well. The intervals are all about working on recovery after above threshold work so try to replicate them when the terrain works best. ---
**Author:** ![psxnl3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@psxnl3](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/psxnl3)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/4 "2024-01-26T13:26:14Z")
Thanks, I actually never ridden by RPE, I tends to max out quite often 😃 I guess I can just try to push hard up any hill and recover while on flat, other bits ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Q](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/steve_q/32/2318_2.png) [@Steve\_Q](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Steve_Q)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:30pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/5 "2024-01-26T13:30:58Z")
Try do some hard (not “all out”) short bits followed by medium effort for a few minutes then go hard again before dropping right down to recovery pace. On a hill you could hit the bottom hard for 10-20 sec (approximate), then go steady, then try to surge over the crest, as opposed to maintaining a steady effort all the way. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/6 "2024-01-26T13:36:21Z")
> [@psxnl3](#): > > I actually never ridden by RPE @psxnl3 Try it on the trainer 1st. You can do it in level mode or just stay in ERG mode and watch your power, cadence and heart rate and how you feel to get a rough idea before taking it outside. Here is a link to a guide. > **[The Perceived Exertion Scale: Training with SYSTM using RPE](https://support.wahoofitness.com/hc/en-us/articles/4405354850834-The-Perceived-Exertion-Scale-Training-with-SYSTM-using-RPE)** > > Training can be effectively completed using the Perceived Exertion Scale when a power reading isn't available.  Perceived Exertion is an estimate of your workout intensity.  It's a personal way to ... ---
**Author:** ![Natasha.R](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/natasha.r/32/11718_2.png) [@Natasha.R](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Natasha.R)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/replace-sub-threshold-with-surges-with-outdoor-ride/24674/7 "2024-01-26T18:00:38Z")
I do a group ride every week, which I love and don’t want to give up. I replace the longest scheduled ride in my plan with this group ride. I know it might not match the training plan 100%, but it’s important to me and I’ve still seen great results from the plans. I think your ideas for taking the ride outside will be just fine. Using hills to provide the sub-threshold portions is good, but stay below FTP (I usually struggle to do that on steeper hills). Make sure you have plently of ‘recovery’ between the hills.