RGT First Impressions and Feedback

I’m guessing many of us are trying out RGT for the first time at the moment so it would be good to hear feedback from other people. Fresh eyes and all that…

From my perspective I did manage to create and ride a race with bots yesterday, once I realised that I need to leave at least 6-7 minutes to allow enough time for RGT to properly create the event, allow me to join it and then populate the world with 99 bots.

I actually really enjoyed it, even though it was against bots with questionable tactics. It reminded me of playing driving games pre-internet when you could only race against the computer, I will probably do more of these when I get a spare 30 minutes and just want to jump into a race.

A few more observations in no particular order:

  • The weird leaning that avatars do when they move side-to-side is really jarring to look at and makes the game look a bit silly
  • Quite often the rider’s feet are not attached to the bike’s pedals when they turn
  • The AI could be more intelligent. E.g. I put in a little dig on the final hill 2km from the finish and no-one even tried to follow.
  • It would be nice to make it easier to set up races at short notice and let others join too, perhaps split the event listings in two. One for regular/big events and another for user-created events that are starting soon for anyone to drop in to.
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With the bots, do you recall if they were ‘Pace Bots’ or ‘Real Bots’? The Pace Bots are rather uninspiring - they can be useful if you want a steady ride getting used to drafting - but the Real Bots are a lot more dynamic.

Here is some info:

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They were definitely ‘Real’ bots as their efforts varied. I wasn’t totally fair when I said they didn’t follow - what I should have said was they didn’t react quickly enough. One of them did eventually increase their effort but not until it was far too late, probably 20-30 seconds after I’d pushed on.

I’m curious to know why the beginner bots are specified by w/kg, but if you specify a custom bot it asks for an FTP range? Is there a reason behind this inconsistency that you know of?

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I tend not to ride with bots much so I don’t have much personal experience with them. The Real Bots are fairly new so hopefully they’ll get more sophisticated as time goes on.

Regarding the descriptions, I think this is an accident of history. Until recently, only the (very basic) Pace Bots existed. They were specified in Watts and were either “Bots with uniform power values.
Weight same as event organizer” or “Bots with random power and weight values.”. Because of the latter, the specification needed to be in Watts. Then, once the Real Bots were created, it appears that RGT wanted to make the categories (below) based on W/kg.

"When adding Real Bots you can select from three predefined levels: Beginner, Intermediate and Expert. Bots Levels are predefined ranges of difficulty based on similar user weight and a range of W/kg:

  • Beginner is 1 to 2.2 w/kg
  • Intermediate is 2.2 to 3.2 w/kg
  • Expert is 3.2 to 4 w/kg"

It might have been more natural to specify the power of the custom Real Bots as W/kg but I think they just stuck with the way they’d done it for Pace Bots.

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Regarding setting up events quicker, you can share the “quick rides” with your friends. So it’s possible to set up and ride an event within about 5 minutes.
With regards to dropping in. I would just be using the real roads for this purpose and often choose the road on a combination of how I feel / what ride I am looking to do and the number of riders in the road. Sometimes looking for company / targets and sometimes looking for quiet.

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Thanks @Robin-RGT-FB-mod and @Riley,

RGT definitely has potential - the base is solid, I just feel the interface needs some work to help people do whatever it is they want to do, whether that’s create a (smooth/optimised) magic road, do a workout, ride/race with other people or set up a quick race against AI riders.

The first time I tried RGT many months ago I loaded it up, got confused, did a quick ride in an empty and boring world and then quit and deleted the app. I’m willing to bet that experience is true for a decent percentage of people who try it. Having given it a bit more time I can see it’s better than I thought, but there are lots of these ‘workflow’ things that could be better and I hope this is faily high on the list for Wahoo to improve.

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I did some rides now, just ride, group ride and race event. I have to admit I am impressed. I have been using SUF and Zwift for quite some time. But I will move to from Zwift to RGT now. OK, in Zwift there are mor racers, but the real bots make up for that. E.g in an elimination race today some real bots were pushing the pace which was selective enough for us real riders to whittle down the field. Once we were only 5 riders left the bots were slowing down to leave the finish to the real riders. Really clever. This means, despite the lower number of real users you still get a good race. The physics are much better then Zwift, the autobraking makes races much more technical and with the varying draft you really have to watch your position. Downside is that you have to watch the upper left corner of the screen all the time. So some indicator of draft in the centre or abover the avatar would be good. Another bonus, when my computer broke down, which had nothing to do with the app I think, and I restarted, RGT recognised the I did not finish the ride, let me re-join and finish, so that I could upload it. Really good! looking forward to some more testing!

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I agree - the underlying building blocks of RGT (in particular the ‘physics engine’) are great but sometimes the surroundings user experience isn’t as good as it could be.

I think that it would be great if RGT integrated a ‘one click fix’ GPX cleaner that could be optionally chosen for Magic Roads. There are a couple of community-provided tools that both go a great job of this but the workflow would be way easier if one or both were integrated and optionally available.

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I’ve done my first 3 rides, all “just ride” magic roads.

  • MTB trail GPX files can result in some “interesting” road features and long 25% climbs depending on the source

  • Seems like there is always a pace bot right behind or next to me

  • Having never road raced and rarely participating in group road rides, working with the pace and team race bots and against the race bots is a new experience

  • the bots are useful on the climbs - if I see they are crawling up a 25% it gives me time to adjust and be ready

  • the bots do provide some extra motivation

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Today was my second day of training with RGT, and I found the action of a “Real bot” very curious (cool). I was riding at a “calm” level and the bot was behind me… suddenly I started at a “strong” pace, I let go of the bot and he responded to the second not to stay behind and stick to me, finally he let go (he got tired? he was in red haha).

I must say that it felt natural, come on… they are bots but they don’t feel like bots and it’s great :clap:

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I’d highly recommend to use GPXMagic (developed by an RGT user :slight_smile: ) before you send it in. You can fins basics here

It’s about 5 minutes work to smooth the GPX data, 10 if you go deeper.

KR,
Andras

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I have done a couple of rides now.
Firstly I did a Just Ride on one of the mountain courses. Ventoux i think.
In true fashion i didn’t read any instructions first but managed to enjoy the ride. I think i was only up against bots, which was a bit dull. At one stage on a sharp switchback climb, i could see under the ground which was odd. Oh, and i saw several mountain . . . Ahem Laser Goats on the side. Nice.
Second ride was an event. It was already in progress, so i wasn’t sure what to expect jumping in. What i found was the avatars of maybe 20 riders on the side of the road so i assume they had finished. There were a couple of riders still cruising around so i had a sprint contest with one rider. When i saw the leaderboard i noticed an N A Henderson had the fastest sprint. Hmmm.
Definitely enjoyed it and with more riders and some tidying up it will be great!

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Since Zwift upgraded their GUI I’ve never been happy. They have really screwed the pooch this time. I was a Beta tester years ago and a ride leader but I can’t take it anymore and decided to try RGT. I’ve done three rides so far and other than a few quirks I do like it. I just wish more people would join. I haven’t found a single real rider yet… just bots. Not sure how much longer I can take it riding alone. I really do like riding with real people.

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Take a look on RGTDb for group rides & races:
https://rgtdb.com/Events

There’s not as many as you’d find on Zwift, but should start to increase now Wahoo have acquired RGT.

They definitely need to make the Just Ride mode more engaging. If they added small groups of pace bots with an option to join a certain paced group (like pace partners on Zwift) then it’d get more real riders riding together.

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I found a good group ride on RGTdb.com. and did find it a interesting experience, we all left, little groups formed, a very different experience to Zwift, and fun, but it wasn’t what I was looking for, I was looking for Z2 group ride, and this felt more like it turned into a unofficial race (very much like turning up to a group ride and wanting to do Z2) and the group I was in speed up, so I dropped back, end up riding alone, then a group court me (I was doing 190watts) they then used me a a tow to the line where they out sprinted me, for a endurance ride point of view, it wasn’t good, and then the ride terminated at the flag, so I was cut to 46 mins

Yes

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Which ride was it?

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Depending on what times work for you, Lou Ricks’ rides might be a good option.

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Today I successfully created a workout (SYSTM NoVid Tempo Cadence Builds 1 x 75) in TrainingPeaks and then sent it to RGT. All went well except that my workout finished early because the Magic Road route that I selected was not long enough to complete the entire workout. I guess this is something to be aware of when choosing routes for workouts.

I ended up just checking off the ride in the SYSTM calendar as done but hopefully there will be a future opportunity to import the ride from RGT similar to what is proposed for the outside rides.

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I think that the problem you had with the workout was due to a bug to fix with the maps in Magic Roads. Let me explain, on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday I trained with Classic Durango, Flanders, Dirty Reiver respectively. These maps have something in common: “they are a circle”.

However, today I trained with Mont Ventoux and the drawing of the map is not “circle” (see photo below) and I thought: “At the end of the map and still not finish the workout will I damage the workout?” And it did not happen, when I got to the end the cyclist made a sharp turn and proceeded to do the course in reverse.

Mont

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Team Lou’s Wednesday Group Ride

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