RGT physics and honest opinion

hi i have been on rgt since beta and it has improve a lot but since physics 2.0 there hasnt been any update to the physics apart from the CDA add. Will there be new version of the physics? Because these ones are great on small groups but on bigger groups there are strange (the thresold to break the collision is too high so light riders have to put too much power to overtake the groups and the second thing is that when you are on a group with collision power savings goes down and they should maintain in the same power saving saving which makes more sense like irl.
i would like to help this platform to be better and not go down like i feel it is currently going from what i see on events. Finally in my view if you want this platform to go up in numbers i think there should be few things you should reconsider. Firstly the magic road thing i dont see to much future for the general public , people like more the world type of maps where you can navigate and have different routes with not the same view on every maps like happens on magic roads , secondly i think you should add something to reward like items or bikes for people to ride more like exclusive things to keep people motivated to keep riding which is crucial for a platform . Finally you should reconsider the steering thing because the line thing looks pretty bad and not realistic at all on the turns taking the inside and the graphics and animation could be improve because you know that the visual thing is the part that engages people the most. Good graphics that look like nowadays games and animation will attract lot of people.
These are my opinions , i think that the team should reconsider few things and improve others which is easier than the competitors if you want to compete with the other platforms i would be very happy to see this platform that i have seen grow since beta go up instead of down Thanks

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So you’re saying on big groups it’s too hard to move from the back of the pack to the front, compared to IRL?

I think the main weakness on steering, as you suggest, is at speed the inside line is IRL often no faster: an outside line allows carrying more speed thru the corner. But I did a race last Saturday where we descended Poggio, and the fastest times were still significantly faster than the top pros, which is appropriate. OTOH other games allow descending at much faster than pros, which is clear in Strava segment data, which is silly.

did you mean slower @Dan_Connelly ?

Whoops – yes, I meant slower :).

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it is easier because you only have to push power and irl you have to find the gaps. What i am saying is that with the current physics there isnt that flow that you have when riding on a group irl also the watts saving are akward because at the moment that you get braked they go down instead of maintaining which is logical also irl on flat you would be soft pedaling or freewheeling on the back of a huge group whereas on rgt you are pushing lot more. Finally the other things that i have said are the things i think rgt should impleted or reconsider if they want to go up in numbers because i have been riding on virtual platforms since 2014 and i know what make people keep riding in one or another platform

Not that it is something that particularly interests me but FYI there has been an update to include ‘equipment unlocks’:

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yes i know but there shoud be something to motivate people to keep riding like better equipment or something like each x km you recieve better wheels or bike or helmet or whatever
i hope you take my opinion and improve some things to engage new people come into the platform

You have more or less described Zwi#$… I’m not an RGT advocate or hater and I’m not in the know, but my suspicion is RGT does not want to emulate Zwi@$, they may just want to be something different?

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its not Z because rgt is much better in terms of realism but there are some things that clearly doesnt work well like the map thing instead of a world one and people doesnt like from rgt

Functionally it still becomes Zwift, and becoming Zwift isn’t how you try to get some of the market share. People will just stay with Zwift. Eventually perhaps adding such things in makes sense when you grow big enough, but as a way to get and retain people I don’t think it’s that simple. You have to do new and different things.

Magic roads is one of those things. Zwift has already stated this is not something they have any plans to do. You say “not the same view on every maps like happens on magic roads” but what I see is an opportunity to improve magic roads to make them more visually diverse and appealing. i tried Zwift for 3-4 months to see what it was all about, and to be quite honest on group rides it was the same routes over and over. With magic roads that isn’t the case.

I’ll also give my opinion on the whole points/unlocking thing. I think using that as a method to encourage people to keep riding is limited. I stopped caring on Zwift after about a month. The motivation of that doesn’t last.

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i agree to some point but the thing i am watching is that numbers are going down.
Now races have less and less people so in my view rgt shoould do something to attract new people instead of losing people which is what is happening at the moment so something is wrong and from i have been told there are platforms that are also going to enter the market that are unreleased yet .

That’s interesting because they already had a buffalo bike challenge over a year ago, which had to be unlocked by climbing an Everest in a month.

I have noticed the numbers seem to be down on RGT too, although this did seem to coincide with the implementation of steering!

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Maybe also with the arrival of spring in the northern hemisphere?

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i have seen it since the steer thing numbers are going down and that was few months ago and its because with the current physics and steering there isnt that flow that there is when riding on a big and fast group outside like @briankellison said on a post .It looks like wooden groups and there is no flow which is critical for racing and enjoyment the platform.

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The addition of unlockable items in the release notes seems timed to their EF Education First sponsored rides, where you unlock a team jersey by joining. I’ve only been able to join one of these (with Lizzy Banks who I admire greatly) and it was a great showing of what RGT can do: the host and pro riders had a good chat on race radio plus turnout was pretty strong.

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Numbers in rides seems to be decreasing and that is a comment from riding some of the more popular events. Alas I think it is due to steering. The issue is that if you are an experienced user of the platform then this might add to your experience. However, if you are new to the platform you have a poor experience. To make steering work you have to buy a wahoo smart bike, or buy a steer tray, or link your phone via RGT Remote App, or be close enough to a laptop to be able to press A and D. I do so many rides where it is obvious that someone has no ability to steer, so they either don’t want to or don’t know how to. if everyone else in the group can draft and you cannot, then you are going to have a poor experience as everyone else can go faster than you for less effort. How many IRL group rides do you continue to join where you are not able to ride in the bunch. Obviously, you can only grow the number of users by getting new users. So Wahoo is either going to have to make a better experience for new users or do a much better job of advertising to the new user base how to make steering work. I don’t see people buying the plastic STEER tray to have a go on RGT. The RGT Remote App is not great and you cannot read the text on a normal size phone. However, the biggest issue is that is not intuitive to need to use an RGT Remote App when you are already using the RGT App. That is like saying to people to make a VideoCall on an iPhone you need to use a TV. So you are relying on that fact that new users are near enough to a laptop to be able to press A & D rather than join via Apple TV.

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I think you are right. I was an occasional RGT user until steering came around and haven’t been motivated to set up my phone to steer. If it isn’t easy to use I will stick with the videos. As far as making RGT more like Zwift, I put off getting a smart trainer because I thought that all the Apps were like Zwift I have zero interest in trying to upgrade equipment in an App.

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Wahoo was a product manufacturing business. It acquired two platform content businesses, The SufferFest and RGT. This verticalization of the market is difficult to achieve as the nature of two types of business is different. I fear for the companies of other platform content companies enter the market. My understanding is that none of these companies are doing well financially. I don’t think the market can withstand new entrants.

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Zwift was smart cutting their losses and getting out of developing hardware, taking an existing trainer and tweaking and rebranding it, and making it affordable and very easy for people to use - setup and recently auto calibration.

Wahoo should focus on the best hardware and SYSTM where they have a unique offering vs RGT which is a mess (not integrated into SYSTM, mostly bots, steering complications…)

The option to ride On Location GPS in RGT could be great if it was not RGT - make it a ride option in SYSTM like Indoor/Outdoor, used the video not virtual world, and default in level mode vs erg. I ride in erg mode far too much.

Put more work into allowing multiple riders to do the same SYSTM workout - real people vs real bots - to grow the community (assumes riders want to ride together. Some may prefer solo as they are have different priorities).

I think the virtual worlds will quickly be disrupted by AI generated spaces (Opus AI for example of tooling) that can generate a route on demand based on my preference at that time.

Rather than striving for more content (too many choices) also think about improving existing content (not saying it’s bad - but how could it be better?) or replacing old content, retaining only the most popular.

I think supporting Apple TV is important as an easy and cost effective way to use SYSTM.

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