# The Wretched (TSS and IF) **URL:** \ **Category:** SYSTM Software\ **Created:** [June 30, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549 "2021-06-30T05:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![madmax](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/madmax/32/2572_2.png) [@madmax](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/madmax)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 5:26am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/1 "2021-06-30T05:26:15Z")
Hi there! I just did The Wretched and noticed that the TSS and IF of my workout are much higher than what is shown in the app. See the 2 screenshots below. My workout has TSS = 71 and IF =0.96. The description in the app says TSS = 60 and IF = 0.88. I did not adjust the intensity of my workout and the TSS, IF and wattages of today’s workout are the same as the previous time I did The Wretched. Could it be that the information in the app is incorrect? Cheers, Max ![Capture1](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/thesufferfest/original/2X/7/7c73b31d75758465c4549f56ef254ed7123c1bd0.png) ![Capture2](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/uploads/thesufferfest/original/2X/1/1e4ae769012efc7934be480bcb834537e570defd.png) ---
**Author:** ![aerobrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/aerobrain/32/5871_2.png) [@aerobrain](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/aerobrain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 5:34am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/2 "2021-06-30T05:34:20Z")
It’s because the values shown don’t account for your personal 4DP. So if you have strong MAP and/or. AC you will get higher values than prescribed. ---
**Author:** ![madmax](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/madmax/32/2572_2.png) [@madmax](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/madmax)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 6:16am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/3 "2021-06-30T06:16:47Z")
@aerobrain Indeed I have noticed that TSS and IF of my workouts are often 1 or 2 points higher or lower than prescribed, but in this case the difference is much larger than what I usually see. Also, this workout is mainly based on FTP, so I would expect the effect of MAP/AC to be quite small. ---
**Author:** ![aerobrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/aerobrain/32/5871_2.png) [@aerobrain](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/aerobrain)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 6:35am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/4 "2021-06-30T06:35:05Z")
Do you know what I did that annoying thing if just skim reading your post and bit really reading the details 🙂 Yeah that is quite a difference and from memory I think Wretched is more like 70 TSS. ---
**Author:** ![Heretic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/heretic/32/2329_2.png) [@Heretic](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Heretic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/5 "2021-06-30T12:20:00Z")
I last did The Wretched in February. My TSS was 73 and my IF was .97 which is similar to @madmax. Since I was on a plan at the time, I just did the workout without looking at the projected numbers. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 12:30pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/6 "2021-06-30T12:30:35Z")
@madmax Check out this SUF article. My take is that the numbers are not as useful since they are based on FTP and don’t give credit differently for time over FTP. I generally don’t pay attention to them except when comparing similar workouts - eg. The Wretched from yesterday and from 3 months ago, 6 months ago, etc. [IF and TSS in a 4DP World](https://thesufferfest.com/blogs/training-resources/if-and-tss-what-they-are-and-what-they-mean-in-a-post-4dp-world) ---
**Author:** ![sheeschen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@sheeschen](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/sheeschen)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 3:06pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/7 "2021-06-30T15:06:33Z")
Yep, similar results here - 73 and .97 the first time I did it in April, then 71 and .96 in May. Since joining in March, I’ve just been picking workouts based on TSS (and a little bit on IF), so it really surprised me that first time - my notes say it felt like the hardest so far. It’s also one of the few workouts that has a higher Strava relative effort than minutes (48 and 47 RE for 46:30 of workout). I just figured it hit my weaknesses harder than other workouts. Good bang for the buck for my time-crunched life. ---
**Author:** ![Heretic](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/heretic/32/2329_2.png) [@Heretic](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/Heretic)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/8 "2021-06-30T15:55:12Z")
While I agree the numbers themselves may not be useful from a 4DP perspective, they should be accurate in the description if they are going to be listed. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/9 "2021-06-30T16:34:46Z")
@Heretic I think they are accurate - just limited based on how they are calculated. ---
**Author:** ![JSampson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/jsampson/32/3148_2.png) [@JSampson](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/JSampson)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/10 "2021-06-30T16:39:45Z")
@sheeschen Unfortunately I have only done The Wretched for my KOS and it was scaled. You are making me realize that I need to put it on the schedule so thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![sheeschen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@sheeschen](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/sheeschen)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 6:15am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/11 "2021-07-02T06:15:42Z")
Looks like the minions read your post, or maybe your app is out of date - it shows as 74 TSS and .98 IF on my laptop and phone. I didn’t check it before my first reply, but just noticed it as I sorted workouts on IF. ---
**Author:** ![madmax](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/madmax/32/2572_2.png) [@madmax](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/madmax)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2021, 6:33am UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/12 "2021-07-02T06:33:05Z")
Nice! Now the values in the app are slightly higher than what I got, but that is probably explained by my relatively low AC value. Thanks minions! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mk2608](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex020/user_avatar/wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/mk2608/32/13742_2.png) [@mk2608](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/u/mk2608)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://wahoox.forum.wahoofitness.com/t/the-wretched-tss-and-if/10549/13 "2021-10-13T20:03:51Z")
Just underestimated The Wretched brutally and was almost KO after the second AC. 2nd MAP part re-energized and low cadence safed my ass. Better not mess with The Wretched (besides the TSS/IF its more mental at certain point). BTW, extreme fun KICKR Climb session, bit to much movement - but must try for everyone.