4DP vs Half Monty results

Lol.

There’s a heap of workouts out there to be honest. Do either of these … and then use the same one in future maybe.
Fir me it’s as much about the consistency side of it - if I use the same one regularly to ‘validate’ then I have a sense of how that one feels as often (actually more because I do NH more often than FF) as I have a sense of how FF feels - consistency is key … probably more so than whichever workout you pick. As you will get to know where You Are relatively.

Sometimes a workout is better than FF as it’s a real use of those numbers (IMO) but when validating HM, FF eventually is the answer.

Interestingly I’m the opposite Sir Jim - routinely do better on HM than FF - my FTP is always a bit too high on HM and possibly a bit too low on FF. I’ve shuttled back and forth from Attacker to Sprinter to Pursuiter in rider type. I think my sustained efforts stink, so hoping post KoS I can continue to build on endurance.

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Well first of all, many thanks Sir Martin for your suggestion of doing Nine Hammers as a validation test. Undoubtedly the hardest session I have done to date. Especially with a new MAP that is 11% higher following Thursday’s Half Monty!

So overall I think I scored a pass on the new numbers. I completed 7 of the nine hammers at 100% and then dropped it to 98% for the last 2. You might recall that the last hammer steps up every minute and I made it until 30 seconds until the very end before I went into a Erg mode death spiral.

I don’t know about other peoples thoughts but I’d say that NH is very much a test of the MAP parameter. It does say it is 5/5 for MAP focus 4/5 for FTP. I thought the Sustain/FTP hammers were very comfortable compared to the VO2 hammers which were touch and go from the first one!

Hard session anyway!

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Perfect summary and perfect outcome. I think your numbers are sorted :slight_smile:

Well done and enjoy your beer and curry now :slight_smile:

With that performance you might well find another block of training and you’ll see FF results move again …

Nice work

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Continuing the discussion from 4DP vs Half Monty results:

I’m also someone that jumps around rider types of Sprinter, Attacker and Pursuiter. I’ve done Half Monty three times now and have always faired considerably better than for Full Frontal.

I decided to test this a little further. After a bit of a break from ToS, I decided to do the Full Frontal. I came out with
FTP 263
MAP 339
AC 494
LTHR 166

Then today, a few days later than the FF, with one hard 2hr ride and a Primers workout session in between (far from ideal!), I did the Half Monty. I got
FTP 297 +34
MAP 368 +29
LTHR 170 +4

With such a wide variance (10%+) I’m really not sure what values I should be training with. Any suggestions?

Thanks
Ian

I had the same issue. Basically advice I got was pick a halfway point between the two and do nine hammers. Depending on how it feels you’ll know. See the link below:

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Thanks!

However one does not simply “do” nine hammers. :slight_smile: I’ve previously done nine hammers after a HM test and the values were probably 5-10% too high as I could only complete seven hammers with those values. I think when they’re closer to accurate, I usually fail in the last minute!

50dwgl

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Same. I think that’s what is expected though. I was reading if you can do them all then it is time to do a fitness assessment.

Interesting HM results, today.

I last did HM on June 26. My results were MAP 318; FTP 257; cTHR 158.

I did FF the next week. My results were MAP 318; FTP 253; cTHR 162.

I had about 4 weeks off. Then have been sporadic, but improving since the middle of August.

Today I did HM agin. My results were MAP 318; FTP 259; cTHR 160.

That’s amazingly consistent despite the time off. I was actually expecting all my numbers to go DOWN. So, I’m pleasantly surprised. I stopped with 20 seconds to go in the ramp step I was on. Felt like I could’ve made it to the end of the step, but really didn’t feel like pushing myself that hard.

Still, happy to see my highest ever FTP.

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Good effort and great results. As you say, they’re INCREDIBLY consistent. 318/318/318 !

Of course you know that you now need to do FF again next week. You know, for science.

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That’s what I did last time. So, maybe… lol

Yep we need consistency for the consistency!

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I’m also getting my warranty replacement kCore next week, so I’ll have to do a power test on it, anyway, for #science.

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@emacdoug I had a mid-summer break (not intended) of about 2 weeks and had a similar experience to you with numbers. However, from there I started getting even stronger fairly quickly. The recovery definitely helps the mind and the body!

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Yep. I had to manually drop my numbers down to 235 for a while as I got back into it because they were just too much after a long break. Then put it up to 245 for about the last month. Definitely took a bit of time getting back up. But I do feel a lot fresher. I was in danger of overtraining a couple times. Just shows that a week or two off the bike for recovery can actually help you get even better!

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@emacdoug so if do half monty i can manually update my profile with new FTP & map numbers?

After Half Monty your FTP and MAP numbers should auto-update (although you may need to log out and log back in to see them). So you shouldn’t need to manually update them after Half Monty, because it should happen auto-magically (even tho, like I said, it might require a log out and back in).

All that being said… if they don’t update after a log out and back in and maybe an app restart, then yes, you can either update them manually, or contact the minions to tell them the app didn’t update them and they will do it for you, or at least note it down as something to fix. :slight_smile:

edit: After re-reading I realized my answer was incomplete and possibly misleading, so I added more in my next reply to hopefully clear that up.

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I also think there’s 2 different questions here.

  1. What test updates your RIDER profile
  2. What test updates your 4DP numbers.

Your 1) Rider Profile (Sprinter, Pursuiter, Climber, etc) is ONLY updated when doing Full Frontal.

Your 2) 4DP numbers are updated by either:

  • Full Frontal (FTP, MAP, AC, NM, LTHR)
  • Half Monty (FTP, MAP, LTHR)

I hope this helps!

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Cheers @emacdoug :+1:t2:

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The 12-week All-Around Cycling program has an HM after six-weeks. When I first did this almost a year ago the HM returned a significantly increased FTP and MAP that almost finished me when I did Nine Hammers the following week. This is not surprising, given what’s been discussed in this thread; the four FF tests that I have done this year have classed me three times as a Pursuiter and once as a Sprinter.

I’ve embarked again on the All-Around Program and am wondering if it wouldn’t make more sense to just do another FF at the halfway point rather than the HM, given that the former is more accurate. Has anyone tried this?