FTP vs. Told Off By Angels power averages

Riding Told Off By Angels I finish with a best average power rating for 20 minutes that is slightly higher than my Full Frontal FTP. Since I’m doing the workout using ERG mode I assume it’s designed for this to happen. The 20 minutes encompass the final 9 minutes of the Rookie race, followed by the 3 minutes of rest, and finally the 8 minute Angels climb. I’m not going to change my FTP number based on this but I was curious…

  • Is this intentional? Is everyone seeing the same results?
  • Is this actually a better way to do the Full Frontal test (using a 9/3/8 minute format of some sort for the 20 minute FTP portion) or would doing something like that defeat the whole purpose of the test?
  • What is it saying that these 20 minutes, which are after some fairly stressful other parts, is at a slightly higher power rating than the test FTP numbers? That my FTP number should be higher? That we love suffering?

That is strange to get that considering you had a 3 minute recovery block in there, but it isn’t unheard of. I have had one of the 20min efforts in HHNF more than my 20mins from FF. Remember than the 20mins in FF is a flat out effort having done a maximal 5min effort beforehand. It is NOT what you’d be able to sustain for 20mins if you were box fresh. I think I also got a higher 20min power during The Hunted. I wouldn’t worry about it :slight_smile:

No (depends on your MAP/FTP ratio)

No. “FTP” is a measure of maximal sustained, steady state, power not the best you can average in 20min.

No. Maybe. This one workout can’t answer that.

Yes, yes, we do :grinning:

  • When I did Told Off By Angels, I had a 20 min best of +1w over my FTP. The Hunted was a best of +6w over my FTP. Shortly afterwards I did Full Frontal with an FTP between Told Off By Angels and The Hunted. Anecdotally, I had a 20 min best across the warmup and the NM and MAP tests that matched the actual FTP portion.
  • I’ve seen/read a few different strategies for 20 min bests, some include J-hook or surges. As was said, though, SUF is targeting specific power zones so I’d shoot for sustained power.
  • It is saying that you are capable of surging and recovering while near your estimated FTP.
1 Like

I just did this one last night. The power averages for the last two intervals were over my FTP but with the rest in between them, the 20 min avg was lower.

That being said, I still cracked during the angels climb and had to backpedal for 15-20 seconds before I could carry on and finish it.

I haven’t gone that deep in a while. All that time above FTP just wrecks me!

1 Like

My short cut to wrapping my head around it is that for a traditional FTP test you take 95% of your average power from a 20 min effort. This implies that you should be able to hold a power a little above FTP for 20 min. I would assume that the concept of 4dp suggests that 95% won’t be quite right for everybody, but the point is that 20 min power should be a little above FTP.

1 Like

Exactly as above. It’s not hard to understand how you can get over FTP for 20mins…the idea is that you can hold it for approx 1 hour. In your max 20min test in FF you’ve done a couple of sprints and a 5min max effort. In the above workout all you’ve done is a warm up…

1 Like