First off, apologize in advance if I’m messing up the SUF lingo. Relatively new to this, started indoor bike training this summer, but a lot of outdoor riding, and indoor rowing.
I did a 100K on the rower yesterday, and mentioned that I’m not sure if it’s harder than a KoS … so now I want to find out.
So I have two weekends coming up where I could attempt to storm the castle, 2/21-2/22 or 2/28-3/1.
I found Rupert’s post with the rules, seems straightforward. Read through some other threads here, got some tips I hadn’t thought of (spare bibs, timer for the 10 min breaks, etc)
Some questions still though:
Is it cool to do it in erg mode? I kinda like just pushing and not thinking.
I’ve got practice downing 500 cal/hr. I guess that’s probably a good target? Never going to fully fuel it but not to get too in the hole.
How many miles does it end up taking? Thinking about trying to raise some money for charity, that seems like the easiest metric.
Partly for amusement value and partly because I know my long ride bike fit is 100% on this one, I’m thinking about doing it with my belt drive commuter bike (https://www.instagram.com/p/DRfp5vcDqkr) on a KICKR ROLLR. Anyone else dumb enough to try that?
I’ve got a few things to say/suggest but I’ll have to check back in another time.
But, yep, Knighthood has been completed on full rollers. My favourite person to ride with irl, did her quest that way. Unfreakinbelievable. So did Sir @DarrenWCKam, if I’m not mistaken.
Share your menu du suffering with us when u get a chance. It’s always fun to see what people choose and what order they choose to do it.
ERG is not required never has been. Nor are there any formal performance targets. The only requirement is that you suffer and that you’re proud of your effort. Most folks do 70-75% of their 4DP. Remember, unlike doing one or two vids, Knighthood is more an endurance event so some semblance of pacing is in order. Many have started too hot and burned up in a glorious fashion midway through their 7th vid if they even got that far. 7 is the unofficial halfway point of a KoS quest.
Edit: misread your ? about ERG. Perfectly okay to use ERG My guess is most people do just that.
There’s No Try for sure, just grab The Shovel To Get To The Other Side. There’s No Way Out. Don’t worry, you won’t end up as The Hunted (yet). You’re gonna hear the Angels sing every once in a while and wish you had a Power Station you could use but that would be against the rules, so sorry bout that. Just head for A Very Dark Place, be the best Attacker you can possibly be, then you won’t be afraid of the Nine Hammers valley. You’re a Rookie? Never mind, just Do As You’re Told, it’ll end as a Downward Spiral anyway and you’re gonna Rue The Day and probably think ISLAGIATT. The Cure for all this suffering? Anything but the Kitchen Sink. You’re gonna be a Local Hero once you’ve finished. And always remember: There’s No Place Like Home!
I found it difficult to communicate to non cyclists what the challenge was a why it was hard. Had to boil it down to, I’ll be spending circa 10 hours doing back to back hard spin classes on my own. Which isn’t quite right but it’s something more people can relate to and means they realise it’s not just 10 hours of going easy.
Giving them a distance could be a good idea. My last knighthood was ~240 km.
I did my first knighthood in lockdown, under a gazebo on my drive. It was the point where people could meet in public in small groups, so people came by and saw me mid effort looking like I wasn’t having a good time and then the word seemed to spread round the village and eventually online that some idiot was doing something mad and more people rocked up. We put a bucket and a poster at the end of the drive explaining what I was doing and a bit about the charity I was doing it for, and our family back story as to why that charity. I collected a fair but of cash in the bucket but donations really went mad when a couple of people posted videos online and then the charity’s social media manger got wind of it and started posting. In the end I had people I didn’t know from all over the world donating, as they also had experience with the condition the charity works to support. It helped that there was nothing else going on, it being lockdown, so people were easily excited by any activity, but I was pretty overwhelmed by the response to me being an idiot. I ended up raising over £2k for a charity that works off ~£25k a year, so a good chunk for them, which was amazing.
Hey Sir Glenn, yeah I did my first attempt on dumb rollers and thankfully no books or bookcases were harmed
Hey aspiring Knight Richie! Well to be honest, it took us all more than a little bit of COURAGE to take on this Quest and even more for those of us humble Knights to do it more than once. Sir @emacdoug can definitely attest to it being a Knight 5 times over. The sixth is coming!
I and by extension the other KoS here will share as much tips/pointers on how we approached our Quests. Training is generally quite varied but more recent Knights (myself included) had the Knighthood prep plan within Wahoo X itself to train. I forgot how long was the entire training plan but I reckon it was about 3 months or so. I am not sure how much the Knighthood prep plan has changed since I am no longer subscribed, but I do remember there was a weekend where there was a really long ride, 5 back-to-back rides which sorts of does it like a proving ground and to test a few stuff before the big day.
I am not sure about the others, but I did have a change of kit (jersey, bibs and socks) every 3 rides.
A timer for 10 minutes is definitely a must to have because you wouldn’t want to get disqualified for taking too long a break and 10 minutes expires really quickly when you’re in that kind of adrenaline rush. The general rule of thumb is to set the time to 8 minutes so that you have a bit of leeway in case anything crops up like the video not loading or the PC hangs etc..
I think most of us do the Quest in Level/Slope mode. Unless there are some who did it in Erg mode. As Sir Glenn pointed out, most KoS did theirs between 70%-75% of their 4DP. I did mine mostly in 75 until the last 2 (maybe 3) where I had turn down the intensity to 65% due to some cramp onset.
Fuelling is quite individual so it takes a bit of trying out. I think fully fuelling up is definitely not the way to go unless you want to be sick after a couple of rides. Consume what works for you over your long rides.
Oh while you’re at it, remember to get yourself real food too.
Any bike would suffice as long the bike fits you well. Remember this isn’t going to be like 2 or a 3 hour ride but you’re easily looking at a 10+ hours ride. Get on a bike which you are familliar with and one which you go on your long rides.
I did it in ERG mode both times. Like you say, one less thing to worry about, just plug in and suffer, then adjust the intensity to whatever you can manage. Think I started out at 80%, held that as long as I could then tweaked. Got down to 65% at one point as hit a wall, but managed to recover a bit and bring it back up.
As @DarrenWCKam says the prep plan is worthwhile, and the 5 session practice run really helps get your approached dialled. Key lesson for me from that was electrolyte intake. I initially approached my fuelling like a long outdoor ride, not accounting for just how more much you sweat. I felt awful at one point in the practice and thought I was going low on sugar but then couldn’t eat, then had something salty and very quickly felt a lot better. Lesson learned.
I’ve done centuries on this bike, so the fit is as good as I’m going to get.
Unfortunately I commute by bike so the regular plans don’t work for me, but hey that’s part of the challenge, right?
Yep, trying to over fuel is a bad time and I’m 100% on board with electrolytes. That’s a bad time when you’re low on salt. The good thing is I’m doing it in my basement, so a nice cool 60F and low humidity this time of year, I guess probably perfect weather for something like this.
Will say that I’m targeting 100 miles for trying to raise some money, thanks.
Figure I’ll start out at 75% erg mode and play it by ear.
Here’s my draft list:
14 Vice Grips
9 Hammers (whoops )
The Rookie
A Very Dark Place
Revolver
The Best Thing in the World
The Bat
The Chores
Rue the Day
Rollercoaster
IDK they’re all hard . With the exception of The Rookie, this will be the first time seeing the SUF video on any of these so that’s gonna be interesting. (I did them before in the Wahoo App and just rawdogged it staring at the numbers)
You’ll lose a couple SUF points for doing one less hammer than required on your second vid aka Nine Hammers (tell me you’re new to Sufferlandria without telling me you’re new to Sufferlandria)
Your menu looks Fugly so I’m sure GvA (Grunter von Agony, director sportif for the Sufferlandrian national team and poet laureate for the greatest mythical nation in the whole wide world) would approve.
Pro tip is to put your fave at #7 but since these will all be new to you, that doesn’t really make sense. Unless you loved The Rookie
I think it’s GREAT that you’re essentially doing a Knighthood Quest where 9/10 vids will be new to you. FYI, Rollercoaster was the latest edition and while the workout is tough AF, and the cycling footage is very good, it’s not really a SUF vid as it’s missing most of the things that make SUF vids special. It has potential but was made after the inimitable Sir Francoise left The Company in the time we call The Darkness. If it was me, I’d pick a different vid from the list of eligible vids but this is your quest and you can do whatever feels right to you.
Oh yeah 9 hammers is for sure a typo I had that right in my notes. My bad!
Honestly I had Rollercoaster down as “WTF that’s hard” after doing it so that seemed like an appropriate finish. I do like The Downward Spiral, that might a good substitute.
I saw the previous notes about the 7th position, why I put The Bat there, just based on the workout itself of course.
IIRC, I think Downward Spiral was the very first SUF vid ever made but it was one of the vids that had to be remastered quickly cuz of the licensing issues. Since then, Sir @Rupert has requested feedback/input from the nation but I’m not sure if it’s been re-remastered™ yet. The workout profile and the workout itself is brilliant though. I just can’t speak with authority on its Sufferfestiveness.
This is fantastic! Happy to see you want to give the glory of a knighthood a go! You won’t regret it. Or maybe you will. Either way you will make GvA proud with your suffering.
I’ve done all my knighthoods primarily in erg mode. Except I’ve switched it to level mode for sprint videos like Violator, and also for Revolver, and for the ac/nm parts of The Shovel, and the ac efforts in The Trick. But that leaves me in erg mode around 95% of the time. And I can use the keyboard to dial the erg intensity % up and down at the beginning or in the middle of the videos, and that means one less thing to think about and reduces the chance of a chain drop.
500 calories per hour is a lot of pain shakes, but sounds about right. My most successful attempts I ate around 90-100g of carbs per hour which is around 400-500 calories. That and plenty of electrolytes.
I’ve tried to keep my erg intensity around 75% or 80%. 80% is usually a bit too high to sustain for all 10 videos. Only once was I able to stay at 80% when I was in my best shape. 75% I’ve found to be more sustainable. It depends on your personal rider type, fitness level, and endurance.
Those are all fantastic choices for your menu of masochism, your real pagne platter, your suffering selection, your… ok, I’ll stop. Anyway, the original Rue The Day was fantastic. I haven’t ridden the remaster. Rollercoaster isn’t an original SUF video, but it’s definitely very high on the difficulty level. You will make GvA smile. Well, he doesn’t exactly smile. But he will tough love you.
same here, the Rollercoaster workout is worth the suffering, the video isn’t. if I were you, I’d choose something more SUF to finish with a bang. just my humble Sufferlandrian opinion
So @richie_engineer, I just did the remastered The Downward Spiral and it’s def a worthy ending for the end of a Knighthood quest. Those last bonus AC intervals might just rip whatever you’ve got left of your legs clean off.
Outstanding, @richie_engineer . That looks like a really miserable list, in the best way possible. When you’ve confirmed a date for your quest, please let us know. You’ll find there are lots of folks who will be here to offer some words of encouragement on the day. Or, you know, maybe point and laugh as you grind through the consequences of the bad choices you’ve made. That’s fun, too.
The Menu d’ Suffering looks terribly miserable but then again it’s a personal choice and without a doubt GvA and the whole Nation will be proud of you glorious escapade.
I found the 5 consecutive rides especially helpful to put into practice the toilet runs/kit changes/fueling.
My biggest takeaway from the Quest was the food choices. Having a good mix of sweet and savoury food would be good. The sweet bananas and soymilk really helped me dig deep to get through the last final 2 rides.
Electrolytes will definite help but as Sir @sir_james.p rightly put it, fueling for a rather long indoor ride is somewhat different to a long outdoor ride where we get a constant breeze to cool the body down to a certain degree and the ability to freewheel every so often.
The idea is to test out what works for you for a long indoor ride along with all those things which you may want to do like kit changes, bathroom breaks, queuing the next ride video etc..
Oh have a plan B too because things can and do go wrong.
This is definitely important for long endurance events. One of the quotes that stuck with me was a quote from a friend’s half-ironman coach who said “Ironman is really just a mobile eating contest”. A KOS is very similar.
And foods that I often enjoyed in my “long” 2-3 hour indoor rides became tedious and sometimes completely unpallattable during a knighthood. So, having more than enough food with choices between different types of sweet/savory foods was huge. Sometimes the sweetness of gels and gatorade became bland and the saltiness of goldfish crackers or a pb&j sandwich were live savers. But other times I couldn’t even stand the smell or more than a bite of anything salty and needed something sweet. And paying close attention to what you’re eating and how you’re feeling can often be signs of bigger things like whether you’re over hydrated or dehydrated.
Yes. Definitely this, too. That’s why the 5 ride test-run can be so important. Helps you identify things that you may not have considered or hitches and glitches that you didn’t realize could be issues.
I’ve said this many many times over the years but I would NEVER recommend a 5 vid test run to anyone. I know others see the value in it but I also know myself and had I been faced with a 5 vid in a row test, two things could have happened. One, I’d have kept going and tried to do another 5 more just to get it over with and two, I’d have either succeeded, or failed and if I failed, I would likely never even try again.
I did pretty much exactly that in doing my 1st virtual Everlasting up Alpe du Zwift. Trained for it by doing 1 at my endurance pace. Then another day doing 2 reps. Another day doing 3 and on the day I planned to do 4 I had everything prepped in case I decided to press on and did exactly that. I just kept going figuring if I could do 4 I may as well knock the thing off and do another 4 ½ and a bit. Boom 8848 and GvA’s your uncle. #crewgotcrew
That’s me though. There were no such training plans back when I did my Knighthood. I tested out the breaks by doing 3 Open 10 or 15 min vids back to back, just to see what I could get done during the break and to test out taking a quick pic, saving the last vid, loading up the next one and making sure everything stayed connected, went to the washroom, took off my shoes, stretched a little, changed kit, got back on the bike, made sure everything was in the allowed time, started the next Open vid.
Here is where I learned the value of an 8 minute timer, of downloading the vids in advance and to do ALL my eating on the bike during the warmups and cool downs and having set up a table with ALL my food for the day and drinks for the day already prepped and in a cooler within arms reach.
I have no doubt that you’ll succeed at this @richie_engineer you’ve totally got everything it takes to join the rag tag group of misfits in Castle Sufferlandria, where everyone knows your pain.
)
. With the exception of The Rookie, this will be the first time seeing the SUF video on any of these so that’s gonna be interesting. (I did them before in the Wahoo App and just rawdogged it staring at the numbers)
aka Nine Hammers 
