After previously only ever having used rollers for indoor training I’m now looking at buying one of the Wahoo rear wheel models, but I want to create physical rather than simulated gradients in order to work the muscles used on steep climbs.
As far as I can tell, only the Kickr Bike Smart Bike: KICKR Smart Bike | Indoor Cycle Bike | Wahoo Fitness UK or the Kickr Climb (when combined with a rear wheel unit):
KICKR Climb Indoor Gradient Cycling Simulator | Wahoo Fitness UK offer physical grade changes out of the box. I don’t have the space or budget for the former and would prefer not to have to remove both wheels for the latter.
Therefore, I’m thinking about getting either a Kickr or Kickr Core and placing a sizeable block under the front wheel to physically raise the bike angle up to around 12-15% so that out-of-the-saddle riding feels like it does on the road.
Has anybody used the Kickr/Kickr Core in this way and, if so, were there any operational problems?
I should add that I’m not really into the full-on zwift/video game thing so will hopefully only be using modes that allow me to do manual gear changes to increase or lessen effort.
Any advice appreciated.
Thanks.
disclaimer: This won’t comply with your stated desires, so feel free to ignore this.
I’ve used rollers many years ago, and didn’t do much with them. They ate tires too fast, I had no resistance control, and didn’t use any kind of apps. Just put in some time, and while they were a good challenge in some ways, I generally just chose to stay outside and ride, fighting the weather and conditions as part of the training.
I finally bought a KICKR Bike, V1, in January 2022, and have never regretted it. I know you may not be able to afford it, now or whenever, but if whenever comes around and you do consider it a possibility, here’s what I think you’re missing about what you want and what you might end up with, vs what you’d get with a KICKR Bike.
You don’t want to remove both wheels. I get that, more hassle is more hassle. (That’s why I didn’t even CONSIDER the options you’re looking at.)
But the front wheel should be a near non-consideration. It is FAR easier to remove than the rear wheel, so if you’re willing to remove the rear, with its associated chain change-over, the front is really a tiny issue.
The other concern you mention is wanting to create physical rather than simulated gradients. (And by gradient, I think you mean mainly the body position/angle impacts and how these affect your muscle usage and development.)
Be aware that you idea of placing a block under the front (instead of using either the KICKR CLIMB or a KICKR Bike (and NOT the SHIFT model, which does NOT change gradients,) will address in a very limited way the physical change of impact of gravity on body position. I mention gravity only because that’s all that really changes by placing a block under the wheel or by the CLIMB or Bike moving it’s angle relative to ground.
The KICKR Bike and CLIMB do not actually change resistance based on their angle/gradient position. That change of resistance is accomplished by whatever app or device you use to control the trainer you’re using, whether the KICKR Bike or KICKR CORE or whatever.
What that means is that you can also change the angle/gradient of the KICKR Bike WITHOUT changing resistance if you use the manual buttons to change gradient. (I’m not sure about how CLIMB is controlled? If it has manual controls, it probably works similarly.)
IF you do this, the BIKE changes to LOCKED mode, meaning it stays wherever you set it until YOU choose to move it.
If you use WAHOO SYSTM (or ZWIFT or ROUVY or whatever others work with it) to control the gradient, you have to have it in UNLOCKED MODE so it will follow the cues from the app to follow the terrain or workout settings.
Once you change the gradient MANUALLY with the buttons, it LOCKS it down again, so you must remember to UNLOCK it to get back with the app control if you want that again.
There’s both good and bad in this. DC Rainmaker and maybe others have disliked this “feature” because it is something you have to remember every time you use the KICKR Bike and do a workout. If you forget, you’ll just stay in the standard 0 degrees gradient. And you WILL find that happening from time to time until you really get used to UNLOCKING each time, and again whenever you lock it by using manual buttons to change it. But frankly, it’s not THAT big a deal once you use it for awhile.
The GOOD thing about this feature that I appreciate is that when a SYSTM workout is NOT DESIGNED to change the gradient (whether to match the video of riders climbing or descending OR just to match higher resistance demands, like intervals of whatever flavor, it lets ME CONTROL this, and I often DO, after I’m beginning to feel a need for change just to give better saddle comfort or let me feel a different position relative to the pedals, or whatever reason I want change. This becomes even more important on long workouts that don’t have any programming that changes my gradient/position. (Yes, I’m frustrated that SYSTM, a WAHOO product, the company ABOVE ALL OTHERS that has a VESTED AND SIGNIFICANT INTEREST in making SURE that their workouts CHANGE THE GRADIENT from time to time on at least most of their workouts, has FAILED TO INCORPORATE the VERY FEATURE that makes the KICKR BIKE and KICKR CLIMB SHINE!!! I’m beyond baffled at this!)
I believe that by simply trying to use a block under the front wheel, you really will still have a lot of hassle for small gains. The advantages of the BIKE (and maybe the CLIMB, if it works this way?) is that it lets you CHANGE MANY DIFFERENT GRADIENTS AND MANY DIFFERENT TIMES, actually whenever you wish, or whenever the workout or device tells it to change.
(I do often ride my own courses uploaded to my Garmin EDGE 840 (or FENIX 7) and the device controls the KICKR BIKE to follow the real gradients of the outdoor, real world course/route. So I like choosing routes that have lots of hilly changes to terrain because the frequent changes to the bike keep me more engaged and energized, and I also like courses with long, extended climbs to get the option of standing up for extended periods for a different effect. That one your block under front wheel can duplicate somewhat, but the constant changes will be a hassle.)
I do understand the cost of the KICKR Bike is higher than other trainer options, but I personally am VERY glad that I waited for this option. I don’t think anything else out there comes close in terms of making indoor cycling more realistic, and I don’t think I would have sustained my willingness to ride indoors nearly as often as I do now. I did a 100 mile ride indoors on the KICKR Bike in January and I would NEVER have done anything like that on rollers or a fixed and locked bike on a trainer.
I did another 100 mile ride yesterday outdoors, btw. That’s where my heart really is, but the KICKR Bike makes indoors at least somewhat enjoyable.
Many thanks for your long and thoughtful reply. You raise many interesting points, some of which I had considered, and others not.
Perhaps I should have added a bit more personal information to my original post to describe my riding and training.
I am a 67 year old male who only started cycling at the age of 64, mainly because of increasing arthritis in my left ankle due to a lifetime of climbing (and falling off!). My outdoor rides rarely exceed 50km (30 miles) and my indoor training sessions last a maximum of one hour.
In addition, the area I live and cycle in – Sheffield, England, is one of the hilliest cities in the country, featuring a plethora of short, sharp climbs rather than mega mountain efforts, with constant ups and downs and gradients frequently in the 10-15% range and sometimes reaching as much as 30%. For someone who spent so many years trying to keep my legs as skinny as possible (better for high angle rock climbing) it has been a hard introduction to the sport! That said, I genuinely enjoy hill-climbing on the bike and it’s the area I think I can make most improvement in.
When the weather is fine then, obviously, getting out on the bike is all the training I need, but we often experience cold and wet conditions and I’m just not serious enough to risk making myself ill, hence the indoor trainer activity.
So, getting back to equipment, I really can’t justify something like the Kickr Bike or Kickr Climb because I have absolutely no intention of doing prolonged indoor virtual rides. I simply want a setup which allows me to do short, specific hill training sessions when it’s blowing a gale outside and do so at an angle that works the back of the legs – Biceps Femoral and Hamstring – more than the Quadriceps.
I don’t envisage the inability to change angle being a significant handicap for the length of time I’ll be training and hope that I can vary the intensity simply by changing through the gears.
Therefore, my original question still stands and it basically comes down to whether I could physically achieve the effect I’m after with a Kickr/Kickr Core + a ‘block’ or would something in the hardware/software make this impossible?
You can use a Climb with the Kickr Core so a fixed gradient such as you’re suggesting should be fine. I can’t recall whether the Core comes with a front wheel riser block but if I was planning to do similar to you I’d think about a way of securely attaching one to a solid block of wood so that the front wheel is held relatively still.
I don’t see any reason that you can’t use some type of block under the front wheel with a Kickr. Saris makes a ‘climbing’ block that holds the front wheel with a little bit of an incline. I would get one of the exercise steps that you can add more bases to in order to get the best ‘incline’ for what you want to do. The step is about 10cm (4”) and each stackable base is about 5cm (2”). Set your height then add the Saris climbing block on top for stability and fine tuning.
The biggest issue might be mounting and dismounting the bike as it will be higher to get over the top tube.
The other thing to watch for is how the rear triangle/dropout fits to the Kickr. It should pivot enough to give you the incline. I don’t know if I would do it with a carbon bike, though.
I have a very small step that I use to remedy that problem. Maybe one of the stackable bases could serve as well.
Kudos for being able and willing to flex in what you can do to manage the arthritis. I’m the same age as you, and biking is among the best things I do to lessen the impact of arthritis in several areas of my body. I also do some specific workouts that help certain target zones. I’m of the opinion that the single best thing anyone can do to improve arthritis symptoms is to maintain strength, not only in the target area but overall as well, since our bodies are a designed system, and weakness in any area can have far-reaching impacts.
As others have said and I agree, there shouldn’t be anything in the hardware/software that would make it impossible to do what you’re endeavoring to do with the blocks. I hope you find success with that.
And I hope you’ll have plenty of opportunities for outdoor rides, which in my mind, always achieve more overall than I ever get from rides on the KICKR Bike.
That said, I’ll admit that indoor rides are easier to control effort levels precisely, so from a purely physical training perspective, there is an advantage with indoor workouts, especially for those of us who live in very hilly or mountainous areas, where controlling effort is that much harder to manage.
Always been tempted to knock something up with a linear actuator; there’s been a few projects around over the years, and the odd (semi-)commercial product. For just lifting a board with your front wheel on, something like this springs to mind **
I mean, what could go wrong 
** Not suggesting one actually does this of course, at ones own risk, definitely not, and so on.
Many thanks to everyone for the information and suggestions. I think I’ll just go ahead and put my plan into action.
Pete.
I have a riser block, same as pictured above, that’s otherwise going to get garden-walled if you’d like it (and a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine wheel-on trainer, but that’s probably a different path to where you’re going).
Sorry, didn’t see this additional post until today. Thanks for the offer of your ‘garden walled’ riser block, but unless you are reasonably local to me it’s probably going to be prohibitively expensive to post/ship it.
But thanks again…