Understanding my profile and training plans

We’re talking about if you just ride FF as a workout, for practice. You don’t want those #’s to alter your profile, so you would need to write down your #’s to change them back.

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Duh :person_facepalming: & thanks! But if the HR monitor is not necessary, then I will do the FF as that is what I have been aiming for. As with HM, I thought the monitor was necessary. I am exaggerating a bit on my dread for doing FF but I have read what a killer others have said about it. Should not have done that!

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So yeah, an HRM is necessary for both. Specifically the 20m restrained effort in HM, but the FF algorithm takes recovery into account in your assessment - especially the recovery from the 20m into the 1m AC at the end, if i recall correctly. So it would need HR data for that.

I suppose technically you could do FF w/o HR, but I think that would affect your results. But maybe only your cTHR? :thinking:

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Yep, when I did my first and only FF, so far, my HRM packed in near the begining of the 20 min FTP section and the app could not calculate my CTHR. That came from my original HM and interestingly remained the same after my recent HM

I thought it was necessary but someone else said it was not. :man_shrugging:t5:. I have a new one coming soon so either way it’ll be done.

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HM needs your HR to help calculate the constrained section which is essential to giving you an accurate FTP value. Without it you really can only get an accurate MAP value and a sub-optimal FTP value (based on a straight 75% of MAP without the constrained section to adjust it up or down).

FF only needs HR to help calculate your cTHR and Max HR. Your HR does not factor into any of your power numbers, including your AC value. Your AC is strictly determined by the power you actually ride during the 1 minute effort at the end. The better you recover the higher your actual power number will be.

So, you can ride FF without a HRM and get accurate values for all four 4DP categories. While HM will only give you an accurate MAP value without, and a general but less accurate FTP value.

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Thanks for the response. Guess that’s pretty much what I’d thought, though not sure what caused me to make the AC connection.

:+1:t3:

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Probably because of the HM recovery and constrained connection. It’s not a hard leap to make. No worries . :slight_smile:

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Thanks everyone for your quick and informative responses.

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Doesn’t it do a sanity check during the 5 minute effort with HR to make sure you’re not sandbagging it? Maybe I dreamt that up….

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Pretty sure it doesn’t. How would the app know? Why would it care?

There are some comments about it but I don’t believe they are related to the actual live data.

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That’s what i figured, but then GvA’s a devious little dude. :thinking:

Yes there is a check the app does based on % difference in power between MAP and FTP. Your MAP should be at least something like 115% or more of your FTP (I forget the exact number). If they’re too close then your results get a confidence flag and the app adjusts your numbers. But it’s based on power not HR.

I had this happen to me a few times when I started out on my dumb trainer and used virtual watts before I got my smart trainer.

I think it has to be >120? I’ve seen people getting flagged at 118% or so…

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Just thinking, would HM drop your FTP result if your MAP wasn’t a high enough % above your FTP?

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Not sure HM would throw the “not confident in the results” flag like FF does - maybe? But I think it would still set results for you.

Just picking at straws after my recent HM that showed a drop in my FTP. Did attacker this morning with my new, slightly increased MAP and with my FTP set to my pre HM test and went through that fine, yes a bit hard but nothing I couldn’t handle so the old FTP figure will remain until such time it proves me wrong!!.

Yeah that makes sense.

I believe HM could also still throw the MAP v FTP flag and adjust your MAP up.

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True but the flow of the thread was whether an HRM was required for FF. The power check is unrelated to HR.