From the Coaches: Long slow duration and why it still has its place in your weekly training

I edited my post after you replied.

I added: “One item in particular struck me is that the focus is on Z2 Heart Rate, not Z2 Power.”

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Right there with you. I recently competed a 5 week cycling training designed for me by a local tri coach (and friend). He had me doing a Zone 2 LSR twice a week. This was much more than I have ever done before. It went very well, best plan results I have ever achieved. I know the Z2 rides were a big part of that.

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Yes, an important distinction.

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I can add my testimonial to the Inigo San-Millan style of training. I won my age group in a sprint and Olympic distance triathlon and PR’d by 40 minutes a 70.3 last summer. My training consisted of 1 hard ride approximately every 10 days and 1 hard run approximately every 10 days. I had one hard swim every week. I averaged around 7 hours / week split between swim, bike and run. Most of my training was San-Millan’s “upper zone 2”. I raised my power at 130 bpm by well over 20 watts in one summer and my running pace at 135 bpm by between 30-45 seconds.

My protocol was prescribed by my physical therapist due to recurring calf injuries from running. He wanted me to build resiliency with the low intensity stuff so I could go hard when I needed/wanted to. What resulted was an incredible low intensity engine that raised the floor in all aspects of my training. I would highly recommend this type of training.

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@DameCristy, consider eating your maintenance level of calories for one week to let your body relax and rebalance, then resume cutting calories the week following. I’ll keep my comment short as I don’t want to hijack this thread by going off-topic. :zipper_mouth_face:

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This video/podcast is very informative and worth watching in its entirety. It is really interesting to see the differences in the response curves of power vs both lactate utilization and fat oxidation of elite athletes, moderately trained athletes and athletes with metabolic issues. It also seems that in the 80:20 polarized training discussion, there may not be much difference between the 20% being spent almost exclusively in zones 4 and 5, making it a truly polarized approach, vs being spread out between zones 3, 4 and 5 in a pyramidal approach. What caught my attention was this video from Dylan Johnson: What Are Junk Miles and Are They Ruining Your Training? The Science - YouTube, emphasizing the importance of staying in Zone 2 on endurance rides and the detrimental effect exceeding zone 2 on those rides has on ANS and HRV recovery.

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Thank you, I am familiar with that video of Dylan Johnson. I agree that there may be no real difference between polarized and pyramidal, but that may be up to individual differences. The important thing, as you say, is to make a Zone 2 ride a true Zone 2 ride.

My definition of junk miles - any miles that do not contribute to your workout or season goal.

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Let’s not forget to have fun on the bike from time to time?

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Certainly, if your goal is to have fun, then they are not junk miles.

What you have to be careful of, if you are on a plan, is that you do not add too much stress that impedes your other goals.

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True, but I read so much about training programs and planning for your event, and season vs off-season (I don’t have a season nor an off-season :smiley: ) that it sometimes looks like people are all obsessed with these goals, performance increases, optimizing training programs and blocks and recovery and whatnot and forget that riding a bike is supposed to be a fun activity and shouldn’t always be done with a goal, or that the goal can simply be “riding my bike”.

It’s also pretty hard to peak for an event if you don’t have events :smiley:

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Agreed.
For a lot of us it is about getting better so that we can have more fun.

I do not have races either, but I do have personal goals (such as becoming a better climber) which translates into having more fun. So I do have to be a little careful about getting too worn out.

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I’m clearly in the FUN camp. And there IS some truth to being able to have more fun when you are more fit, especially if you are very competitive. I’m still more competitive than I probably should be, and the result is sometimes that I’m a little down because the writing has been on the wall for some time, and there are a lot of PRs that I’ll never best again. But I’m learning to accept the reality that age does make a difference, and it’s harder to maintain power, let alone increase it.

The challenge for me is balancing just how much I’m willing to forego of what I consider a MORE FUN ride today, in order to do something “less fun” (and usually less distance, less mountains, etc) so that in days to come, I’ll be more prepared to get those miles and mountains at a little faster pace than I would if I hadn’t done the less fun ride today… and tomorrow… and maybe the next day!

I HAVE learned to “work harder” at going slower, at least more than I used to, to maintain something closer to a true Zone2 ride, and I do see some hints at the benefit in this. (I say hints, only because I’m still far from a balanced training status, always lacking in the low aerobic and often in the anaerobic ends of things, and way too strong on high aerobic percentage.)

Like TheBelgian, I have no off season, ever, and as he suggested, if you don’t have an event, peaking isn’t really in the equation. Sure, I occasionally look ahead (a short way!) to wanting to make a hard effort on a specific big climb, or maybe a big miles ride that I know will include many big climbs and will require me to be well-rested in order to roll a pace I feel happy with. Sometimes that matters enough to me to ease up a little… for a few days…

I know some riders are totally all about peak performance, at whatever level is respectable to them, and they are willing to gear most or all of their cycling miles to achieving that performance. That’s totally fine with me and I get it, up to a point. Where I disconnect from that is just recognizing my own passion lies elsewhere. If I were young and still chasing every KOM I thought I could get, I would likely be devouring all the information and science I could about training and maximizing performance, and adjusting my training very diligently to get to top form, etc. If that’s applies to anyone, my best to you! I wish you much success in the journey.

I’ve watched Dylan’s Junk Miles video (actually again just now as refresher) and I’m clearly a top tier junk miles guy… And it shows in my all-too-frequent “UNproductive” rating from my Garmin Training Status. This comes and goes, and I sometimes do spend a good stretch in the Productive category, but it generally that falls apart because I’m not willing to do enough shorter, slower rides to achieve a proper balance, AND it can be exceptionally hard to stay in Zone2 on a ride of any length in the mountainous area I live. (I could do inside rides, but that’s always a last resort.)
The Dylan Johnson video just reminded me again how detrimental it is to activate the Autonomic Nervous System as often as I do, so thanks, @Roadiedvm for laying that informative guilt trip on me again… :wink:

I know I should be doing a shorter, SLOW ride tomorrow after a 70F degrees, 72 mile, 4500’ day Tuesday, then the Dec. Challenge, easy London-Edinburgh-London Wednesday, and a 60F degrees, 42 mile 3600’ day yesterday with lots of wind and a beastly climb included on both outdoor days. But I’m a glutton, and it’s winter here, roads are clear and dry, temp should approach 50 degrees F tomorrow…
I’m an old kid who loves to ride a bike… There will be cold and snowy days ahead… Zone2 can wait. :grin:

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Oh boy do I know this problem!

I also don’t race and have major events that I plan around and cycle only for fun. I only get to cycle indoors and fun for me is a hard Sufferfest session.

I’m trying so hard to do more and more Z2 work and even watching a documentary that I really enjoyed this morning, the 2 hour endurance ride was so dull.

Maybe in time I’ll learn to embrace the dull or at least reframe them as not dull. I almost always talk myself out of a Z2 session and put something more exciting on instead.

Sounds like I’m a junk miles addict :grinning:

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Exactly the same. It’s so dull!

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I don’t really race either but I have done a few short TT’s with my club and go out on the Sunday club runs in the warm weather with the “fast” group approx 18mph average. Also, did a hill climb which I was pleased with, beating some of the guys 20+ years younger than me. This has kinda created some loose goals for me for this year being a competitive sort of bloke. Mainly to enter a few more TT’s and give some of the younger whipper snappers a run for their money ( I know TT’s are a race against yourself but that still doesn’t stop me from trying to beat them!!) and to try a few more hill climbs cos at 61Kg’s that may be my forte. I agree about long Zone 2 rides on the indoor trainer. I had a 4 hour one scheduled in the TT plan, got to 3 hours and baled out, partly from boredom + sit bone pressure that I could no longer tolerate and mentally thinking to myself…why do I need a four hour Zone 2 ride when a 2 hour one would give me all the adaptation I need anyway.

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Zone 2 rides are deceptively harder than you think. You’re definitely still working and I think it’s that awkward effort where it’s not easy to be noodling along while not the full on effort that you know you’re working really hard. It means it’s hard to fully concentrate on a documentary/TV but tend to be long efforts so the time doesn’t pass quickly!

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+1

I try to get my LONG Zone 2 rides (I do these SOMETIMES!) outside if at all possible. It’s harder to accomplish because of the mountains here, but there’s NO problem with boredom! I’ve done Zone2 rides indoors and can take an hour easily, 2 hours if the video is relatively interesting. Beyond that, I’d have to be really desperate for the easy miles and the outdoor conditions would have to be absolutely intolerable. (i.e. a deluge or crazy cold!)
I will say that for me it DOES help me a lot to have a KICKR Bike that tilts to match grade changes, and thus, it really helps to have SYSTM workouts that USE THE FEATURE. I still wish it was integrated into more workouts. It truly breaks up the monotony and engages me when the bike tilts to another pitch. It affords a change to the saddle position, engages muscles a bit differently, and just makes me feel more like I’m riding on a real surface out in the real world.
It honestly doesn’t even HAVE TO match the power level changes, though that is realistic. Just shifting me about from time to time is a good thing!

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That’s not my Z2 experience at all.
If I can’t fully concentrate I am no longer in Z2, we’re already in Z4 by that time.

Very interesting article! I am starting to do more Z2 rides as part of my training and will try the pyramid approach. Did a 2hr 45 minute Z2 (heart rate) ride yesterday and am feeling pretty refreshed today. My weekly schedule involves 2 * 75 minute free weights sessions, Zwift race about 1 hour, MAP session 1 hour and a club outdoor run of 100km or so. And now a 2-3 hour Z2 session.
In the past I mainly ignored the Z2 sessions however I can see the potential benefit long-term in terms of balancing out the training load, fatigue, recovery etc. also Z2 rides great for weight management as carbs / nutrition not really required for Z2 rides and you burn lots of kcals.
For sure the more intense training sessions are more interesting, however, a Z2 session is challenging enough to keep me focused on the workout, so the time passes fairly quickly i find :slight_smile:

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