Thanks for the useful explanation @Coach.Andy.T
One question: I have a 5 hour endurance ride on deck. I have never gone on the trainer this long, and think I would be more feasible if I took breaks every hour to stretch my legs and switch positions a bit.
What would be an appropriate break time to still benefit from the effort? Would 5 min every hour be still ok?
In my opinion 5 minutes would be a good upper limit as long as you are still moving about (rather than lying on the couch 
). You donāt want to get to the point where your body thinks youāve finished, and youāll know if it has or not when you get back on the bike!
I am a little bit confused about the information given here on the Wahoo platform by the coaches. You write articles in the Training FAQ stating basically āavoid long slow ridesā, āavoid the winter base milesā and āinstead keep intensity in your training or restā. But in this thread you talk about the importance of low intensity rides and the importance of āpolarized trainingā or āpyramidal trainingā.
Can someone please try to clarify?
@ElJay Both are correct. Long, slow rides work well when you have the ability to do a lot of volume. If you donāt have time for the volume then intensity helps to compensate. Most of us have day jobs and are not pro cyclists so we focus on intensity and recovery from that intensity to get our adaptations.
@JSampson But I still think the message is confusing. Read the article āWinter Base Miles? Do Them or Not?ā in the Training FAQ. It clearly (at least to me) states that as a non-pro donāt do low-intensity rides on weekends as the tradition has been. Instead, the article points out: Do high intensity workouts, ātaxingā workouts, alternative training and rest. No low intensity rides.
In this thread the coach states that as a non-pro you should do low intensity rides once or twice a week because you still benefit from them.
What am I missing?
Yes, and if you look at this thread:
The message here is a bit confusing.
@ElJay I read the winter base miles article again and didnāt see where it suggests not doing any Z2 rides. My takeaway from the article was that exclusively focusing on LSD really only works if you are training a minimum of 16 hours a week but preferably 20+ hours a week.
Generally the experience I have had with the SYSTM plans is 2 or 3 HIIT sessions per week which is dependent on how much strength work I am doing and then the weekend rides tend to be longer. In general I have had good experiences with the plans both off-season and in-season. The plans can change based on what I am specifically training for but the 2 or 3 days of HIIT is always included.
Hopefully one of the coaches can better answer your question.
That was my take too. You need to do a lot of zone 2 to make only base miles effective. Thereās also research now to say that keeping some intensity in the base phase is effective. When youāre in a proper training block, two to three high intensity sessions tends to also be what the research suggests is most effective with the rest zone 2 work. While SYSTM tends to package it a bit differently, and itās more pyramidal than polarised, it is based on science and does work. I think the thing we all tend to do is skip the zone 2 work if weāre too busy when really we should be concentrating on that zone 2.
Depending on how long you stop, then essentially what you would have done is x2 3 hour rides. But not many people need to be doing 6 hour training rides, and itās often only pros that can afford that time. A 3 hour Z2 ride will still be very beneficial
5min every hour would be perfectly fine, loo breaks, food stops and stretching
As others have said, itās not about just one or the other, itās the combination of the two based on the time you have available. If you have 4 hours to train a week, then intervals are the best use of your time. If you have 10 hours to train a week, then maybe x1 or 2 endurance rides with 3 interval sessions a week. This post is highlighting the benefits of Z2 so as not to exclude them, it also covers why high intensity is still important for aerobic endurance gains
Itās interesting to contrast that with running. Iām usually running 6 days a week when in a training program. Four of those days will be Z2. The other two days will vary but will involve a mixture of intervals/hill repeats/fartleks/etc. Iām just use to Endurance from a running training point of view. Itās harder for me to get used to the more intense cycling activity that I see in training programs. But then again, Iām primarily a runner.
It is quite common in running to have less intensity relative to training volume. This is because running is an impact exercise with eccentric loading which causes more muscle damage than cycling which is concentric. So a hard day of intervals when running needs to be followed by low intensity or there is a great increase in likelihood of injury. Itās why cyclists who switch to running often have the aerobic conditioning to run far and fast, but not the muscular conditioning to deal with the increased eccentric load and impact, hence injuries. Runners switching to cycling donāt have that issue
Long Z2 rides have been a game changer for me. Despite all the hype around HIIT for the time-crunched cyclist, there are gains and improvements that can only be found using long Z2 endurance and 80/20.
When I started using The Sufferfest I was doing triathlon and mostly doing 60-90 minute interval sessions. I was seeing some but still minimal improvement. Once I started with SUF I realized I was seriously missing a lot of good hard intensity and not doing enough recovery.
But while the HIIT sessions were boosting my MAP and AC, my FTP was barely budging even with a lot of hard work for almost 2 years.
Then I aggravated my chronic back issue and was barely able to ride for 2 or 3 months. When I started back up I had to do it slowly with less intensity. So I slowly built up starting with easy long Z1 spins, then doing more long quality Z2 and easy Z1 recovery spins to help build my base endurance up while my back healed.
Once I started doing more long 2+ hour quality Z2 efforts and just 2 HIT sessions per week I was finding gains in all facets of my cycling fitness and more and easier FTP improvements beyond where I had been before my back aggravation. And in much much less time.
So, if you are riding 4 hours of mostly HIIT sessions per week, just add in one long 2 hour quality Z2 session each week. And be sure you have at least 1 quality recovery day each week with no more than 30 minutes of super low Z1 spinning. The HIIT training has its place, but it canāt be the only thing. Z2 is easier on the mind and the body and is an important addition to your training, if you can find the time at least just one day per week.
You might find this video interesting. IƱigo San-MillĆ”n is a sports scientist, and a personal coach for Tadej PogaÄar. There is an index to this long video so you can focus on what interests you the most. 1:39:00 to 2:10:21 discusses metrics, duration, frequency, and dose.
Thereās a similar video on GCN. Shorter. Same man. Same idea. Itās not a new idea. But definitely reinforces the importance of quality Z2 workouts, polarization, and real recovery.
I appreciate this testimonial! Iāve had similar results with HIIT focus: awesome games in MAP but not enough FTP gains to prepare for my summer events, which are very long rides for 7-10 consecutive days.
You came to long slow duration through back pain; Iāve arrived by way of my weight loss diet this fall that isnāt giving me enough energy for lots of HIIT. Iām spending my autumn on consecutive base, tempo, and threshold blocks and will hit the MAP hard once Iām back to maintenance eating. Your post is encouraging me that it will pay off.
Thereās also a more recent video that Oliver Bridgewood did about his training to get to 5.0w/kg. Along with nutrition and recovery, his training was mainly zone 2 with two high intensity sessions a week.
I watched the GCN Video when it first came out. For my taste, I prefer the longer, more in-depth video because it gives me a better understanding of the underlying science.
One item in particular struck me is that the focus is on Z2 Heart Rate, not Z2 Power.
I can definitely appreciate this. 