Nice jump 
Thanks 
. Februari is going to be interesting with these new numbers. Nine Hammers on Wednesday, Revolver on Thursday and Defender on Saturday. Then There Is No Try on Sunday.
Second week of Feb is slightly less daunting but week 4 is giving me nightmares already because after rest day on Monday itās Tool Shed, Cadence Builds & Holds, AVDP, Recharger, SUF Idol+Frozen Road and then Kitchen Sink.
Then a mixed week and then tapering for FF on the 14th of March.
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curious about the resistance you had for the NM and AC efforts. I did FF yesterday and I am certain I had the resistance far too high for NM.
I just caved in on my second FF test yesterday! I got as far as the 10 min point of the FTP section and just threw in the towel. It was totally a mental thing. I was going reasonably well, numbers all up, but it was a little too late in the evening after a stressful day. So mentally I wasnāt fully there. So I made a conscious decision to bail and try again mid-week in a better frame of mind. On the plus side I now have some good targets to aim for and the prospect of seeing a decent set of gains. Took a rest day today and will do Primers tomorrow and then FF Wednesday. No bailing this time, lol!
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Nailed it this time! Up on all metrics, especially NM and AC, which were my weakest on my previous test 3 months ago. Also modest gains in MAP and FTP. Rest day tomorrow!
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Iām new to Sufferfest and this type of training, and just finished the 12-week All Purpose Road Plan and my second Full Frontal.
I want to share the improvement Iāve made over these three months: FTP up 16%. MAP up 11%. AC up 21%. NM up 37%. My rider type has changed from Pursuiter to Attacker.
While the two weeks after Half Monty were some of the hardest training Iāve ever done, and really made me rethink why I was doing this to myself, the results make it clear ā this plan works.
I think part of the big increase on NM is because I changed bikes halfway through the plan. I use a Kickr Snap, and had my old bike on it first (a 1994 Schwinn CrossFit) and then used my new bike (a 2021 Specialized Diverge Comp E5 ā it took a long time for the thru-axle adapter to come in). I also changed from flat pedals to clipless, which make a huge difference in the sprints.
This is my first post on this forum, though Iāve been reading it for weeks. I want to thank everyone, because thereās such great advice and wisdom shared on here that it made the hours spent in pedaling away in my basement through this past winter more than bearable but enjoyable.
Thanks!
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Second FF completed today. I knew it was all about max efforts etc, but still think I must have blocked the 1st attempt from memory, it seemed so hard!
Biggest achievement was finishing it. 10mins into the 20min session is a dark place indeed!
10mins in, my brain was doing over time coming up with plausible reasons to ditch todayās attempt and ājust do it again in later this weekā whilst another side knew Iād be in same pain in a few days so ācrack on nowā. Thankfully a small piece of conscienceness stared at the RPM and held the number steady. By the time the internal arguments subsided I was at 8.50mins remaining, which felt so much more doable than 10mins!
For anyone else that did the HM/FF plan I would be interested to find out experience on the FF MAP result vs. HM projections.
I feel like HM & FF MAP results ought to be closer vs. the discrepancy often seen in FTP. I did the HM 3 days before todayās FF and MAP projection was 5% in front of what I got today. My actual 5min power average from the end of the ramp was actually higher than todayās MAP - which I think shows up the mental weakness! I find it much āeasierā (invigorating?) to grit teeth on the ramp vs. striking out on set wattage and trying to hold it for 5mins!
Until next next time. Done.
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My results have differed every time. But the one time I did the HM-FF double I had a higher MAP in FF by 9w, but a lower FTP by 20w. I have no explanation for this.
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Looks great!!
Iām excited. I hit new 5sec and max power PRās, this morning! Max power 1236 and my 5sec power is up to 1177w. 13w+ on my 5sec power! Now I only need to find an extra 24w to break that 1200w for 5 sec mark. I know Iām not the fastest or most powerful, but Iām just excited to hit new personal records.
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always remember that if you do this, you have to redo the 5 mināthatās usually enough to keep me going 
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I too find the HM to FF comparison intriguing. Last plan my mid plan HM FTP and MAP numbers were way above my end of plan FF numbers. So this plan I did a little experiment. After getting similar mid plan MAP and FTP numbers from HM. I thought why not try FF on the new numbers (in erg mode!)
My hypothesis was, if Iām just ābetterā at ramp tests, because Iām more suited to them I should fail the FF test in erg mode on recent HM numbers. Guess what, got through both the MAP and the FTP parts of FF on the higher HM numbers (in erg mode). It was tough, but no tougher than a well paced FF in level mode.
I have renewed faith in HMās accuracy now.
(Apologies to grunter, Mac and Neale for ever doubting you!!)
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Thatās fascinating.
Someone else (in another thread I think) recently had positive feedback from doing FF in erg mode to get over some of the anxiety and treat it like a regular hard session.
Great that you did it on your new HM numbers.
So now youāve found out HM is accurate for you, will you ever do the FF again though!!?
I do this quite a lot. Rightly or wrongly, it gives me a āsenseā of things. Mind you it still tells me Iām significantly better at FF than I am at HM but thatās another story. And I have gone in to HM rested and psyched enough too, and still die on the RAMP, whichthen falsifies the ftp as the ftp is dependent on the RAMP lasting long enough. Itās circa 6% lower MAP I get on the RAMP when the lungs die going too far in to VO2.
So anyway - I am one of those ādo FF as a workoutā people, and it works for me as a measurement mechanism
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First FF of the season, up in all numbers so feeling generally good.
I sandbagged the five anf the twenty a bit because I wasnāt confident, but last min of the five was like 430 so I know I could do more. I think my Mt Suff is to one day see a 4 at the front of that number.
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I donāt think doing FF in erg mode is really a true test as it removes a lot of the mental element from the test, so yes I will do FF in level mode in the normal way.
However, Iām glad I did this little experiment. Itās removed that little bit of self doubt from doing workouts on fresh HM numbers. I know the numbers are correct so I just have to suck it up and suffer like grunter expects!!!
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While this is undoubtedly true, completing FF in ERG mode is still a valid measure of at least what āminimumā power you can actually hold. If you are doing most SUF workouts in ERG mode then your power targets should still be valid providing your FF ERG targets were not set way too low. Certainly better than significantly underachieving FF in level mode due to a pacing issue or a mental weakness!
The problem in using ERG mode for FF is that you are having to guess what power targets to set for each interval. If you under-estimate your power then it will be too easy and if you over-estimate power you will simply crash and burn!
I always use level mode for FF, but set myself realistic pacing targets for the 5 and 20 min intervals based on my previous workout performances or recent HM result if applicable.
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How do you set targets for FF? Wonāt the targets be based on your current 4DP/HM numbers? How do you decide what numbers to use as your targets?
@djones632 I reference my most recent Standing Starts #s for the NM targets - trying to push out a bit more gain. For MAP I generally start with the existing number and think about what makes sense as a stretch target without overcooking myself during the effort. For FTP it is similar. I generally start at about 80% of MAP results for the 1st 10 minutes and then try to push it from there. By the time I get to AC I just try to mash the pedals - I donāt really have a target.
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@JSampson Thank you for your reply - that is really helpful. One other thing which I have been wondering is how do people fuel for FF? I do 80% of my workouts fasted (i.e. anything up to an hour, first thing in the morning) but there seems to be mixed information about how to properly fuel for FF. Cheers.
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