I’m not a sports scientist and am not an expert, but generally the rule I’ve heard and follow is prepare for the FF (or any fitness test) how you’d prepare for normal workouts. If you do something “special” before your FF, you might not be able to repeat that level of performance during training and end up with numbers that are a bit too high for completing the workouts in your plan. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be fresh or should try to go into FF with huge fatigue, but if you normally are fasted and then eat before FF, it might make the workouts really hard when you’re fasted again.
That said, I always make sure im very fueled for the FF, but I also try to be fueled for most of my workouts (and all of my workouts that involve high intensity)
I don’t have targets for NM. I just put my head down and go, it’s more about trying to find a gear that i think i can spin up but not spin out. It takes a little practice and i don’t always get it right.
For the MAP target, i usually do same as @JSampson but it depends where in-season. At the beginning of each season if i haven’t done structured training in a while, I start out by doing a few weeks or unstructured riding, during which time i will try to push some hills as hard efforts, then, depending on how long those efforts are, use those as starting points for MAP. Do the target for first minute, little bit higher for second minute, and so on. It’s a more conservative approach. If it’s in-season and i have plenty of data, i might be more aggressive and start above my current MAP and try to hold on.
For FTP i don’t really find the same need for targets, because i can “feel” the range where, below it i can go go go whereas above it, the minutes are numbered. I can’t really do that for MAP because of how dramatically RPE changes over the course of the effort even at constant watts, so i need to do more calculated pacing.
Fueling, i do like to be fueled. For these efforts you are chomping through glycogen. Like i’m looking at my last FF from this summer and it was something like 1000+ kJ of work. Your body is not like a race car, where you get to half a tank of gas and the car still drives the same, rather as you burn through glycogen it’ll start to down-regulate functions. That said, if you normally do workouts fasted, then i’d do the same for full frontal, just like others have said.
@JSampson just wanted to drop in and say thanks for the help. I did FF this morning following your handy guidelines, and improved all of my 4DP numbers by much more than I expected. Cheers mate.
@djones632 Glad to hear it went well! I would recommend adding some thoughts in the notes section of the app so you can reference what worked and maybe what didn’t the next time you do FF - targets, pacing hydration, fueling, etc…
The next challenge is completing your workouts with your improved new numbers. It may be bumpy at 1st but hang in there!
@JSampson Great advice again thank you. I have just done exactly that, which I’m sure will be helpful for next time. Also just a good exercise to evaluate the test, and really think about where I pushed too hard or could have gone harder etc. Will be starting a new program this week with these higher numbers. Genuinely cannot wait!
I did my first FF yesterday - thought I was going to vomit in the end. That was proper suffering.
Did the week preparation which seems absolutely essential. Half of my hydration went on my head as coolant, despite a gym-fan blowing from a meter away - it gets hot.
Target power levels were based on HM and were a perfect starting point for what suffer level to aim for.
Now as for the results: I’m a “time trialist with a weakness in sustained efforts”. I’ve found some explanation of this, but still can’t quite grasp it: My FTP is both my strongest and weakest element. How does that work?
The numbers as percentage of FTP:
FTP 100%
MAP 126%
AC 167%
NM 335%
AC is the lowest bar in my graph, I’d expect that to be the weakness. But if none of the others are low enough to be a weakness, I’d think I would be a rouleur with a weakness in sustained efforts?
I find it very strange and love to hear your opinions on it.
Hi, just seeking some clarifications. I just completed my 4DP. As per the last time, I have the same strength and weakness as my previous 4DP test. But when I start my new All-Purpose Road, I have been doing All-Purpose Road all along, the drills are totally different. Hope someone can explain whats the difference this time. Thank you
(To be honest, I kind of wanna throw up when I see my drills in my new plan… )
I believe it is the relationship between the numbers that defines your rider type. Although your AC is the lowest bar, it may yet be high enough not to define it as your weakness. My rider profile is the same as yours, and I have a similar relationship between my numbers as yours, with AC being the lowest bar.
I guess you have read this article? I think explains it fairly well:
while the other metrics aren’t high enough to put you in a different rider type, they are also not low enough to have that as a designated weakness.
Thanks Magnito, Ideally we get to see how the algorithm identifies the different rider types. That will probably do more damage than good though, with people (me included) wanting to be a different type and potentially skew the results. I’m going to do some work on my AC going forwards - suits the punchy climbs in my region too…
Hi,
I’d like to understand how app detect riders type ? I’ve do my first test yesterday, and I’m climber (IRL, that’s right).
My values :
NM 665w
AC 376w
MAP 312w
FTP 261w
Thanks
Hi. It’s based on the relationship between your results and your weight.
For climber it probably means you’re light compared to your power, so have a w/kg above whatever threshold the app uses to decide.
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From the website:
The more watts per kilo you can put down the faster you are in the steep stuff. If you’re light and strong in the pedals during the 4DP® fitness test, you’re likely a Climber.
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Hi @facorsig what I did on my last 4DP Test was look at even going 10-15 Watts, I was 194 FTP and 227 for MAP now I’m 207 FTP and 247. I think if you look not too far ahead like say 10-20 watts and if it feels comfortable and you can hold it then try to do that rather than say looking at something 30-40 watts higher and dropping dramatically halfway through. As regards strength you might feel better slipping in some yoga sessions until your legs feel a bit better although if you rest for 3 days after the 4DP your legs should have recovered by then
As I prep to do my next 4DP, I have a question about the NM.
The last time I took the test, I didn’t spin up. Rather, when the gun went off, I shifted into my lowest gear and stomped for all I was worth. As a result, I threw the flywheel of my Kickr Bike off true and rode the rest of the test with a scraping sound emanating from my trainer (It sorted itself out over the next few weeks, which is nice.).
What did I do wrong? I want to attack the NM section again on Monday, but I don’t want to screw up my trainer.
I always put it into the gear I’m sprinting about 20 seconds before the sprint then start pushing the watts up when it starts counting down from 10, I don’t know if you need the lowest gear Alex, I don’t but like I say I’m almost starting to sprint about 1 second not when the timer hits 0
There is a warning in FF not to ramp up to the sprints ahead of time. Keep in mind that you aren’t trying to hit your maximum possible 5 second power.
Instead think of your NM as setting your targets for repeated efforts, like in Violator or Shovel, where you don’t have enough rest between intervals to ramp up.
This is why FF has 7 second sprint segments. The leading 2 seconds are there for a reason.
@AlexEllermann You may want to double check that your dropouts are connected firmly to the trainer. I use Sir Neal’s guidance on the NM test which he provided in a Breakfast with Boz podcast - 5 sec / NM: For sprint - start at FTP power going into the sprint around 80 to 90 RPM and then accelerate to 110 to 120 RPM.
I previously would get into the big gear for the NM test but now have been focusing more on gearing with better chain alignment and matching a level that gets me to FTP power at around 80 RPM.
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