Hill climbing

That’s the way! I’ve got a screenshot of it saved somewhere, just in case they did such a thing.

I’m liking the revamped building blocks actually. I did the high volume MAP towards the end of last year and have just started it again (to try and get back to where I was t the end of the last time…!).

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I had to look it up – Fitting!

Hello @Repleasant and welcome to the SYSTM Forums :blush:

I agree with Sir @TrapMeSuf – short steep climbs are largely a function of your Maximum Aerobic Power (MAP, or 5 minute power), while the longer mountain passes or canyon climbs are more a function of your Functional Threshold Power (FTP). The Building Block plans are an excellent way to target deficiencies. From the Plans tab select Cycling > General Fitness > Building Blocks.

Have you attempted a 4DP Test? The Full Frontal 4DP Test is also a great way to identify which metric or intensity is lacking, and then working through either a Building Blocks plan or the General Fitness plan will likely improve the deficiency.

Good Luck!

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Thanks all, you’ve given me a lot to go on.

I found that I can still download some of The Sufferfest training plans in Training Peaks. I just downloaded Volcano. You need a TP account to do it.

Any plan that focusses on MAP will be helpful for improving performance on shorter climbs 4-10min as well as improving overall aerobic function/capacity. From there you can do more sustained work or repeated work if there are multiple shorter climbs in succession. So an all-purpose plan is one way to go with a mix of sessions to focus on these. Additionally building blocks with MAP, then FTP our AC depending on the climbs you’ll be doing and the terrain where you train.
Additionally just riding outdoors and on the climbs more can be beneficial for muscle activation when climbing as it was been shown that gradients can affect muscle activity patterns and therefore change the way your legs work when riding. I did a research piece on this for my BSc tat can be found here

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Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

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Ok so I’m interested in this debate.
I live in UK and a lot of my rides involve climbs of avg 5% that last between 30-60 minutes.
My goal each year is to better my times on these.
What’s the best approach?
I have a 50-34 with 11-32 cassette and struggle to spin at cadence over 75 rpm.
Any advice as to what plan to follow for 3-4 weeks? Thanks

Caveat: I’m not a coach or an expert. That said, longer climbs that you describe I think will be limited by you FTP which in turn is limited by your MAP. So you could put together some building blocks that focus on MAP and FTP. Or you I suspect you could find an event prep plan that has that focus, but I’m not certain what that would be.

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Thank you.

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Based on my personal experience, I agree with @AkaPete, the longer climbs are endurance limited. I generally climb with a low cadence.

For my next bicycle, I am planning on getting, the smallest chain ring I can find.

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Climbing speed is going to be a function of W/kg - so anything that either increases power or reduces mass will help. As others have said, short climbs will be MAP based, longer climbs FTP based, so training plans that address those two areas will help. Carrying less mass (either you or your bike) will also help.

Climbing is also a massive mental game - I think it’s a matter of finding a rhythm that you can (possibly uncomfortably) sustain for the duration of the climb.

If you don’t know how long the climb is, don’t fall into the trap of thinking the next corner is the end of the climb. Best advice I got for a 100 mile MTB race was ‘you’re not finished climbing until you’ve been descending for at least a mile’ - don’t let the false flats, corners, or short descents trick you into thinking you’re done with the uphill.

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Don’t forget fueling. I once bonked in the middle of an long mountain climb. That was not pleasant.

And yes, as @way9e0 says it is a massive mental game. I have climbed for hours, and I had to constantly distract my brain.

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Rather than grind up a 30-60 minute climb at 75rpm, I would fit a gravel or mtb chainset so I’m not trying to ride with. the same gears as a pro who can do 6w/kg.

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I agree gearing on longer climbs needs to be looked at. I need to try and grind less and spin more but I’m finding this difficult on gradients over 5%.
Anyone using 11-34 shimano cassettes?
How are you finding these on flat sections, is the spacing too big?

I don’t quite go that far but have 11-32 on a couple of bikes. I don’t find it’s an issue on the flat when out on the road, and the difference for climbing vs. 11-25 is fantastic, I can spin up 10% climbs I used to grind on.

The only downside is actually in Systm. As I also use one of the bikes on my Kickr Snap, I do have issues with it in Level mode (basically Full Frontal). I find it tricky to get the right power at the right cadence because of the gaps. If you use a different bike for road, I’d definitely say go for it. I’m sure you are aware, but you also need to make sure you get the right rear mech size whichever cassette size you choose.

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I got a new bike last summer with the SRAM 12 speed cassette (10-33) and 46-33 chainrings. It gives you about the same big gear as a compact, but a 1:1 small gear and the 12 cogs keeps the difference from gear to gear under control. I’m liking it for tough climbs.

FWIW, All the best climbers I know, whether small and light or biggger and heavier , spin at 80 plus rather than grind .They also rarely get out of the saddle except when gradient really demands or perhaps to clear some lactate. Two of them I have ridden with in the alps and Pyrenees and with ftp at 4.1 or 4.2wkg equivalent, ride 11-34 so they can spin and have a bailout gear.
Neither has access to long climbs and so both train for endurance.

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Thanks. I need to up my FTP and my endurance I suspect. I am considering swapping to an 11-34 for days with steeper climbs. If I can get up to 80rpm I’d be a happy cyclist.

For comparison, on his epic alt-tour, Lachlan Morton used a compact crankset (50-34t FSA chainrings with Cannondale’s SiSL2 cranks) and a 11-32t cassette. His race setup is typically a 53-39t crankset with an 11-28t cassette.

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