How many 4DPs have you done?

An excellent question, 4DP is a wonderful thing!

This year: 2
Total: 8



Good luck with the test. I must admit the last week of hard training coincided with good weather here in Belgium so I tried transferring the workouts outside, with mixed success. Good lucking with your next 4DP

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Thank you for the article Coach. Very pertinent to the thoughts going through my head. I was wondering when my plateau would appear and I think I am nearish to that.

Having said that my last block of training was hampered by a crazy period of time at work and some time recovering from my first covid vaccine and some sunshine (rare in Belgium) which tempted me to try and transpose my sessions outside (but without power meter!!).

I did do the Full Monty mid programme where a Half Monty was planned thinking I needed to get my full 4DP profile to make best gains in the second half of the programme. Hence why I’ve done 5 this year.

Is this beneficial, or counter productive?? As I presume it takes longer to recover from a full monty?? I know rest is often as important as the training! Would it be better doing half monty at the mid point even if it doesn’t give all 4 parameters?

I only ask as the full monty is so challenging. I found the last one difficult to pace where I nailed the pace on all the others. I also brought my full monty forward from Sunday to Wednesday as I am having my second vaccination Friday and knew I would not be up to 4DP testing two days after, so was not properly tapered. In my experience, you have to follow the plan to to the letter including resting and taper to be able to “peak” for the test. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

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None here as yet.

I’m just planning on working from my FTP for the next couple of months then when the weather turns I’ll go for the 4DP and follow a plan.
For now I’ll get in as many rides as I can outdoors and drop in a few SF sessions when weather/time doesn’t allow.

I’m looking forward to doing the 4DP test in a masochistic kinda way :grimacing:


This Year: 0
Last Year: 0
First Year: 2

Reason being: My gut (yeah well, together with, wko5 (couldn’t resist to trial it) and xert) gives me a fair enough estimate of my FTP and 5minute power. All methods (including FF) are within +/- 5 watts. Maybe I’m just lucky that my physiology is completely average and all methods seem to work for me.
And what’s with 1min power and 10sec power? To be fair, the 1min effort in FF is quite unique, but why exactly do you need it? The AC und NM intervals are mostly allout-ish efforts in level mode anyway (the trick, shovel etc …)

Ready to get schooled :stuck_out_tongue:


@Grm You may want to try it as a workout just to take a peek and know what is coming. It would better prepare you for when you are ready. Below is a thread where @Heretic makes the suggestion after he had issues with his 1st attempt. I think we all struggle with it the 1st time (and often the 2nd and 3rd …) and so the suggestion makes a lot of sense.


@FatSprinter I have done something similar when I had other commitments and the scheduling didn’t work. I have been able to test successfully after 3 days of light activity and low overall stress, increased hydration and solid sleep. It is always best to follow the plan but there are certainly workarounds when you need them.

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Doing a Full Frontal is definitely valuable however it causes more fatigue too so Half Monty is a happy medium to update 2/4 of your values without going all out.
If you think you will see a big change it is worth doing the FF otherwise stick to HM :slight_smile:


This year: 4 FF attempts, 2 completions (twice I did not have it in me/not enough sleep/recovery etc), also two HM
Total: 23 completions


Total of 23 completions. That is some suffering and commitment to the cause over a number of years. Well done,

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4 FF total, one this year. If I have been working mostly endurance and FTP, I often will just test those. I do the FF in three circumstances:

  1. About to start an indoor block
  2. About to start an intense, above-FTP block where power targets will be useful
  3. Periodically to test the impact of training, even during or after a block of working just endurance, tempo and threshold. You’d be surprised that the low intensity work can lead to gains at every duration (except maybe NM)

I’ve done FF 15 times. A few of those were DNF, when I botched the test. HM has been very helpful to help set my targets after vacationing in the land of couches.

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These are helpful for ERG mode, which I use for most of my workouts. If those are too high, I can’t complete the intervals.And if I can’t complete the intervals, I get really moody, and start hunting for the nearest flogging station.

So it’s helpful to me if I have a victorious mindset reinforced by successful workouts rather than feeling like a failure after being defeated by targets that aren’t realistic.


The 1 minute power is a measure of how well you recover from repeated efforts, it is not a real measure of your 1 minute power.


This year: 1 (Post TOS)
Remaining planned for this year: 2
Total: 10

This year: 1 (Mid plan)
Remaining planned for this year: 1
Total: 3

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Yes, if I recall correctly this is written in some FF article as well. It’s more w’ or hie for that matter. But SUF doesn’t adjust the recovery times based on your w’, hie, ac, however you want to name it, it just adjusts the watt targets. But as I said, you don’t actually need an AC/NM number for 99% (ok, 95%) of the catalogue.
I’ll agree that it is a useful assessment if you don’t know if your repeatability is a strength or weakness though!

I’m a big fan of erg myself. However, almost all (I’ll admit, not all) NM/AC workouts are meant to be done in level mode and be executed as all out efforts (See workout descriptions).
You can’t be “defeated” by all-out efforts in level mode, you can just bail (which is worse and does indeed deserve serious flogging :stuck_out_tongue:
I totally agree that workout completion rate is the best test anyway :+1:


What is w’ and hie?

Not enough. But yet again too many.

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Basically it’s just how wko/trainingpeaks (w prime) and xert (high intensity energy) try to measure repeatability.