Post 4dp FF advice

Hey all,

Had a dreadful winter with illness and injury resulting in weeks either off the bike or hardly riding. Just rode outdoors for fun since January and in the last 4 weeks or so I feel normal again (not getting dropped by people I “shouldn’t” get dropped by.

Did a 4dp today with the idea of starting structured work again, and right at the end a phone notification caused the app to stop :frowning: I’d done all the hard bits, and it was recovered and generated the numbers, but not reflected in my athlete profile. I do not want to do that again, so should I just manually update with the new numbers?

And in terms of the numbers themselves, I really struggle with the NM on a turbo. In real life I can do between 1000 - 1200w in a sprint, but on a fixed turbo I struggle to get north of 1000w. Do I just stick with the tested number?

And not for the first time my MAP gave me a warning as it was too far below my FTP. I don’t know how. I’m definitely giving it my all (I was light headed and dizzy after the FF and the stairs felt HARD!).

On the plus point the numbers weren’t too bad. I’m off my best for sure, but not below my worst. My perception that my fitness is back is correct and I think I’m ready to make gains in time for a few summer TTs, MTB races and some summer cross…

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Yes, just adjust to those numbers, it will be fine and sprinting on a trainer is hard, use the tested number because indoor and outdoor don’t need to be the same, your 4DP numbers should reflect you and your indoor setup because that’s what it’s controlling.


@Leon_99 Glad you are feeling normal again! @Jon has given you top notch advice! Happy Training and getting back to where you were last season!

Since i posted this, I discovered I’d had a completely seized bearing in my BB. Crank and axle boiling hot from friction. This would definitely cost watts, being on the wrong side of the measurement.

I think I’ll need to retest, although can’t bring myself to do that yet. Does a half monty make sense and use it to compare against the 4dp measurements to get a sense of how far out they are?


They are different tests. For some people, they align well, for others, not so much.

For me, HM always gives higher FTP and MAP… others have reported the opposite. The difference can be quite significant - in one case, I did HM about a month after FF and got +13% on FTP and +11% on MAP.

So unless you know from past experience that your FF and HM numbers are comparable, a direct comparison might not give meaningful information


Well done for getting through the 4DP with the worn seized bearings. I would assume if they were seized it would make a huge difference. 4DPs need thorough tapering and preparation and you need to be 100%, so if you cannot prepare for that, then a Half Monty would give you figures to train with in Systm. I normally only do the 4DP, but did a Half Monty and the FTP/MAP derived from it made for challenging but doable workouts. I didn’t like the Half Monty, but in reflection it gave me decent figures to work with. Having just read what David had posted, it is food for thought. I did a 4DP recently at the end of a programme on my Half Monty figures, using the Half Monty FTP and MAP as targets. I smashed my NM, but 3 1/2 minutes into the MAP trying to keep just above my MAP figures, I just couldn’t do it and bailed. Whether this was having abnormally high MAP figures from the Half Monty that I was trying to beat (it was only 10 Watts from the 4DP at the start of the programme), I don’t know. But, … I put it down to heaps of stress, too much work and not being rested enough for my 4DP.

I’m still using the Half Monty figures and the sessions are hard but doable, which I believe is the point. If you do a half monty and your sessions are hard but doable, then the figures have done there job in giving you an appropriate level of challenge to make gains.

What I would say as well is, make sure you are 100% fit and healthy before giving it 100%. It has been a terrible winter for sickness and being healthy is most important. Having said that too, there are some great getting back into sessions especially the new No Place Like Home that can give suitable transition to suffering. Good luck.

I would stick with the indoor NM number as it is for efforts indoors, and with the MAP was that coming out as lower than your FTP?

Everything came out lower than “normal”, but then as I said Id expect that a bit as I’m on my way back to fitness (although as also mentioned, I feel I’m mostly in the ball park again now).

As I type this, I realise it’s all just guesswork now. I think a full 4dp is on the cards again. I did a “the wretched” yesterday using my old (i.e. higher) numbers and it was fine, which also makes me think I wouldn’t want to lower anything right now. I think I’ll try somethin a bit more challenging next and see how that goes. 9 hammers maybe, as I know it’s one I can’t finish if the numbers are wrong.

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