I also add z2 apart from the plans.
Plans are good for the intensity workouts, add as much z2 as you want to make up the training load you need.
Usually outside, but indoors z2 is much more controlled, but harder to motivate for more than 1h30.
One thing I do on occasion, is to use a “normal” workout and adjust intensity to 75% or whatever falls to make it a z2 workout.
(Might need to adjust individual targets to get rid of map/AC spikes).
This usually makes a workout more engaging than a no-vid, as it will have music, video and CLIMB action.
Some people like to watch netflix or whatever (there are good documentaries in the inspiration series workouts that are already z2).
I find watching films confusing, as I am not concentrating neither on the film nor the workout, so I prefer to be in full workout mode, even if it’s for z2.
If you watch the videos I posted above (especially the second one), you will see that Iñigo San-Millán advocates putting the emphasis on Zone 2 workouts even for people with a limited amount of time.
His argument in a nutshell is that you need to target energy systems. Zone 2 workouts develop the mitochondria. If you shift out of Zone 2, that triggers biological mechanisms that stop that process. Even if you shift back to Zone 2, it take a while for the body to shift back to the mitochondria building systems. If you only have an hour to train, you will not get a lot of mitochondria building.
He does say, that after an hour or so of Zone 2 work, if you want to then go ahead and do hard efforts, that is OK.
So a few important things to emphasise, a lot of the studies into Z2 being more beneficial have a myriad of factors that mean those studies aren’t necessarily applicable to recreational athletes. Firstly, zone 2 is needed for professionals training a large volume as they can accumulate more training stress without the fatigue of intervals and get benefits that are required to those competing in longer multi-day events.
Secondly, zone 2 conducted as x5 1hour sessions is not as beneficial as x2 2.5 or x1 5hour session as several of the key benefits come from the actual duration and repeated muscle contractions of Zone 2 rides. In that scenario, 1 hour of intervals will be better for aerobic endurance than 1 hour of Zone 2
Thirdly, it depends on the population. Zone 2 equivalent exercise is generally better for those who do not exercise as much and want to do it purely for health. Higher intensities are really tough if you are not used to them, so maintaining a plan is difficult and fatigue from the session if it’s HIIT can be too much.
I’ve tried and tested a lot on myself. I was my fittest when I was doing 26-30 hours of riding a week, with around x4 6hour Z2 rides with efforts in the final hour to simulate end of race efforts. I also did x2 e races a week for the very high intensity. This was after uni, mid-pandemic, with not work. Now, I work full time and don’t race. I have no time for lots of Zone 2, and had been doing x4 1-2 hours Z2 a week. Fitness went nowhere. Now I’ve added x2 1 hour intervals a week and aerobic fitness has improved a lot more. I still only train 4-7 hours a week, but HIIT has been essential for me.
So for the majority of users on plans on SYSTM, the current pyramidal structure will be the most appropriate for them and also the best plan to maintain alongside work and family. It’s hard to make enough off-the-shelf plans to fit every single possible time structure that SYSTM users have. So my advice would be to use the sessions during the week, and weekend if time is short, but if you have time maybe do 1-2 longer Z2 rides at the weekend, while doing key interval work during the week
With respect, Iñigo San-Millán disagrees with you about the applicability to time crunched recreational cyclists. He does not seem to have stated an opinion about pyramidal vs. 80/20 training; he does insist that the Z2 training be the majority of the time, and be uninterrupted by harder efforts.
As for your comments about the difficulty of making general plans, I understand. That is why I use the workouts, but have found the plans to be of minimal value.
@Coach.Andy.T I just did a 5 week cycling plan designed by a tri coach for me. Of the 6 days a week, 2 were Z2 days of at least 90 minutes. The net result was excellent. I feel stronger, am riding longer at higher W and am able to put a harder effort during the HIIT workouts. As I have said, best training block I have ever done.
Now I know it is not just because of the Z2 addition to my schedule but I do feel it played an important part. I think those efforts added value without excessive fatigue on my legs, which contributed to me being able to ride harder the other days.
Like you, this was a test on myself. For me, this plan worked, even though this was/is more Z2 work than I have ever done.
The point of this long winded reply is this. I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss the value of Z2 rides for the typical Systm user. I think we are all at different stages in our training. As we consume more information we need to determine what makes the most sense for us, experiment, and learn. I (not being a professional coach) do think many of the Systm users might benefit from more Z2 rides based on my anecdotal experience and what I have read.
Perhaps there should be some plans that do integrate more Z2 efforts for those who might like to try it but are not sure how to apply it properly. No one is going to complain if the brain trusts that design the plans offered this as an option.
I’m aware, I’ve read a lot of his work and my understanding of it was that for more recreational health focussed athletes, as opposed to fitness focused, it is better. But for wanting to improve higher intensity performances then a mix is required and the old 80/20 isn’t necessary. But neither is 5 days of intervals a week. Agree on the uninterrupted element or Zone 2, but efforts at the end of these longer zone 2 rides on occasion is something he is a proponent of with Pogacer
Iñigo San-Millán does not disagree with the need for the mix of efforts. I am glad that you agree that if your focus is Zone 2 you need to stay in Zone 2.
What is your opinion about the Zone 2 here being based on HR rather than power because you are trying to train an energy system. At Zone 2 power, you could be getting contributions from more than one biological energy system.
So, taking your comment, I assume one should totally disregard the following workouts: Endurance 1, Endurance 2, Endurance +, Endurance 1.5, together with the 45 workouts under the Inspiration channel as the longest there is 1:47 and 45 are Z2 based and regarded as Endurance workouts?
Why would the above workouts be offered if they have no place as standalone workouts according to your statement of the minim being a 2.5 hour Z2 workout twice a week? Are we meant to do these workouts back to back then?
Your statement is rather confusing to me and somewhat contrary to what other coaches/physiologists state. Please can you help clear my confusion, despite your being as concise as you have been that 1 hours endurance workouts will give you no benefit - junk miles - junk TITS I guess.
The biggest takeaway I get from this epic discussion is that my weekend Zone2s rides are a waste of my time because I cannoy stay in zone 2 1p0% of the time. Because of the insane hills here (cannot ride flatter than 1000m/100km) there is always some coasting and some huge climbing. And even when climbing mega slowly at 5km/h in my granny gear, I am still pushing WAY more than zone 3 power, never mind zone 2.
So I guess I’d better plan to do my big zone 2 rides indoors on the weekends else there isn’t much point. Here’s last weekend’s 100km ride, and I rode it as much in zone 2 as I could. I didn’t chase other riders and do any sprint segments or anything. This is just me riding as zone 2 steady as possible on the flattest terrain I can find.
So it depends what the boundaries are for zone 2 as really you want to be working below the first lactate threshold, generally falls at 75-85% of FTP and better to go lower than too high, hence why the Endurance+ rides are capped at 75% as that should remain in the right physiological zone. But as you say, this is variable and fatigue factors can decrease your LT1, so making sure that you experience limited cardiac drift is a good way of determining if you are staying in Z2 during your endurance rides
Not at all, I was stating that it’s ‘not as beneficial’, I didn’t call them pointless or without benefit.
If you have 5 hours a week to commit to Z2 training, you are better off doing them all as x1 5 hour (based purely on what would be physiological ideal). However, this is not practical for most people as we don’t have 5 hours of time to train. In that scenario, where we have an hour to train, we can’t do intervals every day of the week or we’ll fatigue heavily. So an easier endurance session will give us training benefits of Z2 (more of which are achieved at longer durations but plenty are still attainable at lower durations too) while simultaneously recovering and not overdoing it on the training stress.
Your rides won’t be of no benefit, don’t worry. There’s sometimes a big disconnect in the science and the ideal from the real world. E.g, Pogacar is able to do everything his coach tells him to do because he is a full time cyclist with no other commitments who can train 6 hours a day and rest for 18 hours, he also will have a Z2 power and w/kg that humbles 99% of riders in the world.
One of the big benefits from endurance rides is the long duration of repeated muscle contractions. If you are riding at an intensity that is sustainable for those long rides, then you are getting that benefit. It may be a bit more fatiguing and require a bit more rest having to dip into Z3+, but you will still be getting benefits.
The problem is with all these rules and ideals is that they are not applicable to everyone at all times. And for the record your data from your ride there is perfectly acceptable for an endurance ride in the real world
This is why Peter Attia (see above) does his Zone 2 rides on the trainer.
I have the same problem. Not only are there hills, but I have to accelerate in traffic to maneuver /manoeuvre. I can also drop below Zone 2 if I stop for traffic lights.
Thanks @Coach.Andy.T and @Heretic so glad it isn’t just me. I’d go crazy doing all my zone 2 indoors tho, so will suck up the slightly less beneficial but still beneficial higher intensity long rides I can do
Just went for a 4h LSD ride… spending everything in Z3 en Z4 . Rolling terrain and a lot of wind, and of course going faster is fun. But now legs are tired and tomorrow’s workout kind of useless.
. Rolling terrain and a lot of wind, and of course going faster is fun. But now legs are tired and tomorrow’s workout kind of useless.