My thoughts on Systm after a week and a bit

I find this a bit strange as one of the things that I like most about Sufferfest/SYSTM is that ERG works so well. Back when I was using TrainerRoad one of the things that I hated about the software was the lag in power that could mean 10-15 seconds to get up to the correct power whereas the old Sufferfest app and the new SYSTM have always gotten me there within 1-4 seconds which makes those short sharp efforts so much more fun.


Same here. I’ve found to erg mode with my Kickr core to be right one the money with very little tolerance. On Zwift there is a much wider tolerance that I find very annoying, and a slow ramp up to those hard efforts. SYSTM just snaps me right to the next target almost instantly and then keeps me almost right on it.


Adding my 2cts to the discussion, overalll I think the new app is okish (am on ios and mac) however also the new “intros” to the videos whether yoga or cycling or strength are quite disappointing, e.g yoga I barely hear the beginning with Abi as it seems a “quick cut and paste” edit. and yes the image of people just standing and looking up have no value added in my opinion, luckily only lasts few seconds. For me, the biggest miss is I don’t have the workout history. very often I used to find the video I just finished to see how my session went vs. previous sessions. As I could see then the evolution in a quick and easy way, how I performed on a given workout vs my recent effort. As it somehow helped me understand myself and my riding.
And with new app I find a lot of the videos lagging.

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Totally agree with you.

Feel dissapoinment in this “re-branding”, Android compatibility says something like ‘sorry, too many variables to be able to confirm that it will work with your phone’ …

Can’t drag to Training Peaks …

Now, I get an email telling my laptop is too old!!! Yes is old, and is working perfectly and all my other apps work perfectly!!!

We will soon give you[Wahoo users] the chance to drop workouts, and US THE ONES THAT USE GARMIN? Oh yes, we do not matter, we are ‘the others’ …

As far as trainers, my prefered brand is Elite, am I gonna have issues down the road since I am using ‘the competition?’ …

Seems that this will become a ‘if you use wahoo products you will have no issues using our app but, if you use the "others’ products, you are going to have issues’ … Feels like a push to get the hardware to be the same brand, if this is so, then bye-bye it was fun while it lasted …

Wondering if we can still purchase The Sufferfest’s apparel and accesories before they get re-branded …

Some good points there.

Only issue I’ve had as that SYSTM unlike SUF does not support the ability to mirror and play music via iOS at the same time as running the app. So cadence builds and drills etc are going to be a pain.

Also what happened to stretching after suffering :flushed:

Pro-rides are awesome :star_struck:


@andrewmei Per this thread it could be Stretching III:


I don’t recall them ever saying that you don’t matter.

They are adding more features and support for more devices all the time. That’s a good thing. Some devices are harder for them to integrate with and will take longer to implement. That’s not showing bias, it’s just being pragmatic.


Totally agree, and in the DC Rainmaker article about the launch, Wahoo are referenced as saying pushing of workouts won’t just be to Wahoo devices


My thoughts on this. I started “Suffering “ on videos some years ago no controlable trainers just “encouragement” and notes on gearing. So a longtime user. I like the new format it’s really not that different. I do continue to have stuttering videos with multiple freezes on the video the audio continues as does the effort. I have logged out and back in and still this happens. That takes away from “suffering “ in general fix that and let me download outside workouts and things will be better. Please don’t lose the “suffering” brand


This was eloquent, honest and I agree.

While I’ve not tried SYSTM (was so uptight about the reveal and rebrand, just couldn’t bring myself to it - plus when I tried to login it either wouldn’t recognize me or result in a “Bonk” site error), I found the control between trainer and software to be the best I’ve tried and is one of the reasons I stuck with Sufferfest. I have an approved trainer, a Cycleops Magnus wheel on. With that trainer I found it way more realistic than Zwift, Rouvy, RGT. I did experience occasional hiccups when I would spin too fast and let it coast, as well as an occasional hard effort loop when despite the power target it had a ton of resistance, but I changed it from Bluetooth to ANT+ with a 6 foot dongle extension and that improved the control and eliminated some glitches.

I’m with you there!!! I cannot stand the home page with the photoshop pro athlete / model / glamour shots. Personally I steer clear of all products that are marketed like that. I’d much rather see actual users busting their tail or just graphics or artwork.

Totally agree, although I’m not a gamer I’ve used tech since Windows was just “Windows” so I hate hate hate hate when software companies release half baked versions.

Again - I agree… I have been Suffering for most of 2021 and loving being part of something exclusive. Every activity I did through Sufferfest was uploaded to Strava for the rest of our 100+ member amatuer racing / cycling club to see. They use Zwift, so yes I was training differently and got tons of kudos for it.

Sad… Hollywood just killed James Bond because he was too conservative. I was disappointed with the SYSTM snowflake edition as well.

I feel the same way… But I was so uptight I was embarrassingly overly negative and my reaction was to cancel my membership. Now that I have looked around for something else comparable to replace it with I am finding there isn’t anything that offers what Sufferfest did. Now I’m at a loss… I haven’t even had the heart to ride my bike or workout since and have gained 5 pounds. I’m considering the training plans at TrainingPeaks, but they don’t have workout videos and I’ll need to use Zwift to deploy the training indoors.

My feelings exactly. Personally, I may have received this better if they simply shut down Sufferfest. At least then it would’ve just been a clean break and I wouldn’t have felt as darn depressed and slighted by the rebrand. I invested many months Suffering, made significant gains following the science while enjoying the edginess of it and stuck with it because it worked and I felt that I was part of something special. Had they just shut it down, then later offered “SYSTM” in all its sterile glory, I may have been more apt to try it.

I’m not as optimistic about gaining lots of new subscribers. I believe that products and services that focus on something and do it well, will attract the most customers. The shot gun approach to being all things to all people doesn’t usually work. Sufferfest was for cyclists. They did it well. I am a cyclist, I’m not a jogger, runner, swimmer, etc. Not that all those aren’t good sports, they just don’t relate to cycling. As it is I have a tough enough time stomaching Strava, because it includes running. But it’s owned by UnderArmour so I get it. With Wahoo, my personal opinion is they should’ve just made SYSTM for all those folks who weren’t cyclists… Or perhaps include cycling but not Sufferfest. To me, Sufferfest was the ultimate platform for cyclists to train on. Now I’m not sure what it is. I was on a month to month and cancelled. I am sooooo glad I didn’t prepay at a discount for a year.

So my thoughts after a week and a bit of not trying SYSTM and being without Sufferfest: Dazed and confused. I am desperately seeking something to replace it, but I will likely need two or more new subscriptions to accomplish that. Maybe a combination of Training Peaks, Zwift and Beachbody. If anyone has suggestions let me know.

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Well, since you’re asking for suggestions, I suggest you try SYSTM.


Why be hasty and cancel?

Spend some more time, the videos are basically the same. If you can use the mental training to get through an interval in Violator or Nine Hammers, you can certainly use it to get through the intros (which I do not like either). You can use it to ignore that generic name SYSTM.

You can always cancel in the future, but once you cancel you are probably gone forever.

Incidentally, I do know of one place where Mount Sufferlandria has not been eliminated.


There are many who use Sufferfest to train for triathlons. That being the case, adding more workouts for running and swimming is a good thing. As far as Sufferfest videos go, they haven’t removed a single workout. Instead they have added a new video, plus three new categories of cycling workouts: Pro Rides, On Location, and a Week With.

There are 20 new workouts/videos in these new categories alone, plus additional Inspiration videos and new No Vids as well. Let’s also not forget a rejuvenated and much improved Strength Training category and the Knowledge podcasts.

These are proof to me that The Sufferfest is alive and well, only now it’s part of a larger ecosystem. As I understand it, they are still working on a reimagined Passport, and statistics tracking. Also wins, and I can’t wait to see what they come up with.


@toddsdonald In general companies need to grow or they die. The landscape for training platforms and associated hardware is vastly different than it was five years ago and it will be vastly different in another five years - especially with well capitalized firms like Apple and Peleton making further inroads into the space.

Why not try connecting with the minions so that you can get yourself up and running and get on the platform again. We can all see that you belong here. Based on your comments it seems like you already know that you belong here too.


Given that Wahoo ‘only’ has 250+ employees it was a totally foolish plan to embark into bringing a watch to the market, a super competitive segment, that requires tons of SW development resources. Same resources would have been put to better use to grow the ecosystem that Wahoo was primarily dominating (indoor cycling and training).
All while we are still missing basic features like workout export to head units (while I can do that with TR or TP).
I mean I cannot imagine nobody at Wahoo is thinking, OMG what have we done…

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I’ve been riding SYSTM since it came out and I feel it’s a big step in the right direction. I’ve been using Sufferfest since May when I bought a Wahoo Smart Bike. The bike was a huge improvement for me from my previous trainer and it allowed to set it up like my Pinarello. I installed the same saddle and pedals on the Wahoo as my road bike and after tweaking for awhile I have a similar feel on both bikes. Not being a long time Sufferfest user I feel they are good rides but many of the videos are only something to pass the time while riding, for me they aren’t inspiring.
A couple things I noticed since the upgrade to Systm; the smart bike runs much better, transitions are faster and smoother, the overall feel of the ride is better and the new videos by Michael Cotty are a real step up and ERG works really well on the. The classic climbs are great and the downhills are really cool with the fast turns, the adjustments to cadence, watts and grade makes it a much more realistic ride. I’ve really enjoyed the training programs for the last 16 weeks of training but the last week has really been so much better. Not having used the programs on another setup than the smart bike I can’t relate to some of the issues that others have commented on but I can say that the Wahoo Smart Bike and SYSTM aren’t perfect but it’s the best I’ve experienced and getting better. Riding outdoors in Colorado on a road bike is an incomparable experience, especially after working hard on a long climb and then having the exhilaration of a long downhill with views, turns and the wind rushing by you but if I’m riding indoors the Wahoo and SYSTM is a really enjoyable way to train. Keep on bringing more new rides and tweaking the system to make it even more realistic. One other comment is that I live at 6,700 ft so when some of the comments are about adjusting to altitude in France or Italy that are below or equal to my home i think it is pretty funny. Bob M.


I did think this when we released The Omnium…


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


I know I’m in a small minority here, but as someone who works 12 hour shifts (which often end up being 14 hours) on a four on four off rota, there is no capacity to create a plan which works round my work schedule


@ZenTurtle Seems like a lot of existing technology from the Element head unit was used in the watch. It isn’t an all things to all people product. For now it is targeted primary to triathletes and the multi sport handover is an interesting feature that hasn’t really been addressed well by other companies.

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