Vo2max gains,
Is it power based or HR based?
There is a difference since HR has a delay. When power can be reduced from 120% to 50% is a sec, the HR will stay high for a while…
It is crucial when doing 40/20 sets like blender.
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Hi there - when you say power or HR based - do you mean the workout? If so, all the workouts are Power based - just let your HR do whatever it does - as you say HR is a lagging indicator, and on short intervals will steadily rise throughout them typically.
Just hammer the power and focus on that (some people actually choose to not display HR so that it’s not a distraction)
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Hi Martin
thanks for writing. my question was more generic and not related to a specific workout. i trying to understand wether the physical benefits are happening when you’re at Z5 power or Z5 HR, as these two wont accumulate to the same time within a session.
Ah – got you – ok, in that case, the answer is training with Power at VO2 with extend your VO2max – though it sort of becomes a little bit ‘moot’ in many ways.
Some days though you’re HR might be higher or lower (caffeine / tired/ whatever), but if you’re pushing the watss your body will be adapting (with appropr rest rest rest etc) to producing that power with the heart and lungs and muscles and so on that you have.
To be honest – it’s gets a bit grey at this point – as obvs your heart and lungs are providng the pumping of oxygen to those muscles, so they get stronger too and so on.
But judge the amount of time at Z5 as by power (another example is sometimes your HR will stay up for some reason even longer than it normally lags … even when you’re recovering … so you have to use power time – that help?
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yes. thanks for the detailed answer 
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An alternate answer is it doesn’t really matter. Want to push your Vo2max - ride hard for 5 minutes, recover, repeat. Hard can simply be “I can just about keep this up for 5 minutes”. Alternatively do the 40/20’s or 30/15’s approach (easier mentally but maybe not as purely effective) and alternate between hard and easy. But yes, if you do need a target to help you do “hard” then go with watts. If you want to analyze things afterwards then go with everything - RPE, power, HR - they’re all useful in their own way, especially when combined. Only my opinion, of course. I added a “training” category to the post so maybe one of the SUF coaches will spot it and chime in.
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thanks James.
at the high level you are right. but if we want to be more specific than it does make a deference how you sum it up. as a coach, if you want your athlete to spend 15min in total at Vo2max zone. how do you calculate it? by power or by HR? when does the gain happen?
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There is a danger of trying to be a little too specific here @Itai_Katzhandel - when I commented that it sort of becomes moot eventually, and @JamesT is saying that too, there comes a time when it really is - go do some intervals and work really hard in each interval, and the gains will come.
The overall ‘method’ is to train by power vs HR though as a general rule, You won’t see any of the SUF workouts based on time on HR for example.
Is there a specific context here - is there someone suggesting you need to do ‘n’ minutes at a given zone?
Even if there is, I’d still just go with a plan and follow it - plans are designed to get you stronger and let them lead you … or speak to the SUF coaches about a custom plan and talk about this stuff during it?
In summary - work really hard (VO2) + rest = gains.
Tell you what - though I do not know your circumstances, nor what you’re in to, or goals or anything else …
If you just go do Nine Hammers as your first weekly workout for a few weeks, throw in a low cadence ‘strengthy’ type one later in the week to balance it out and do one more FTP one later in the week, then you’ll get stronger (in my opinion, based on a dataset of one (me)). DO I actually know how many minutes I spend in VO2, or Low Cadence, or at FTP? nope. because I know what each workout is targetting, and I leave it at that
yeah I totally get what you’re saying. and agree with you.
I just curious to know when the physiological gains are happening, regardless any training plan or session.
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The answer is both then basically as one thing leads to another. Add rest and nutrition to that. And job done.
Let us know how Nine Hammers goes…
well familiar with nine hammers
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If you look at the Fick Equation, and therefore consider VO2max in terms of Cardiac Output, then HR plays a greater role in measurement.
Nonetheless, our tool-shed uses watts/power targets to increase the workload to bring the HR to the desired zone as it is much more practical in our indoor trainer, ERG controlled environments.
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Hi @Itai_Katzhandel - our resident physiologist Sir Mac Cassin has written an extensive training blog on HR training - everything you’ve wanted to know on the topic.
Heart Rate: Everything You Ever Wanted To Know But Were Afraid To Ask
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exactly. thats what i think. the power targets are just a tool in order to get to the desired HR zones
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Yes, but particularity more in the case of VO2max.
For the other Power Dimensions, it’s far less significant IMO. I don’t even look at HR during a session, just after if it requires analysis (i.e. failure).
Certainly irrelevant for NM/AC.
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I think everyone’s got it nailed