Wahoo CEO Interview by DC Rainmaker

@CPT_A Sure I can understand that but think back to the environment in the financial markets coming into the pandemic and even into the early stages of the pandemic.

Interest rates were historically low along with a vigorous IPO market with lots of SPAC deals - capital was everywhere and investors were feeling really good. My guess is that the initial investors probably wanted some liquidity along with money to scale the business at the time and saw a great time to bring in capital for a nice return on equity. Buy low sell high right? We all do it - or at least try to.

Unfortunately the new investors used leverage for the transaction. My guess is that the new investors expected that there was an opportunity to ramp up the business and then perhaps either sell or list on a public exchange and so the debt and related covenants were not thought of as an issue at the time. Obviously their models were inaccurate and the post-pandemic crash in trainer sales and related equipment along with a historic rise in interest rates put the brakes on that.

Look at the 1st quarter of 2023 - several very large regional bank failures occurred due to the rapid change in market conditions. Lots of big players were caught up in these macro changes. Take a look at M&A transaction volume over the past year - a significant drop from prior years. Those with dry powder are sitting on the sidelines and probably won’t start acting in a meaningful way until mid-2024.

I certainly don’t blame Wahoo management for reacting to a macro economic environment that was well beyond their control. I think they did a good job of preserving the business.

No one likes to see layoffs but if the cost structure doesn’t make sense for the business you need to prioritize what is most important and make changes where needed.

RGT failed to grow market share despite investing lots of money. Chip admitted that it was a mistake and became more obvious as the company tried to mend fences with Zwift. Personally I was somewhat annoyed when they bought RGT - as there were other things I wanted to see them focus on. However I did grow to appreciate the platform and I saw the benefit of another way to do workouts, the opportunity to take a break from videos and do more social riding. I also came to really appreciate the community that had rallied around the product and I feel most for them that the platform shut down.

I also get the position on the watch. I previously used Suunto and have used Polar as well. Those companies are much more established than Wahoo in the market and yet with the 8,000 pound gorillas (Apple and Google) pushing further into the sports side of the market with additional innovation that is capital intensive, even those well established players are struggling so it makes sense to me that Wahoo isn’t going to invest further on the watch side. I like the watch and wish that they further enriched the functionality just a bit more to bring it to mid-market specs. Seems like those development teams were cut early in the layoff process to preserve the teams built around core products like the Kickr line which is too bad. Still it works for me and I use it daily for runs outside and on the treadmill, for strength sessions, hiking and skiing.

Anyways I just feel like there is a lot of negativity in the forum these days and yet I really feel like the platform and products are solid and heading the right direction. Looking back at some of the posts over the last few months there has been a lot of doom and gloom. Sure I get it - there were lots of things in the media that we didn’t have full details of and it caused uncertainty.

However, now I feel like we have more clarity and some reasons to feel optimistic about where things are headed. We saw a few product launches over the past months, a couple new SYSTM videos and a revitalized Wahoo app - so stuff is happening and apparently something new is coming in Q1 2024.

So that is my glass half full view. Apologies for the long post.

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Did you get the impression that Wahoo is going to concentrate on hardware and use their new relationship with Zwift as the software provider? Training plans that may become more individualized via AI feedback (versus having a live coach) at some point?

With Francois moving on, I’m not sure if there will be any true ‘Sufferfest’ videos coming out in the future. I can see On Locations, Inspiration and ProRides continuing (as they need little to no storyline/music integration) as well as the No Vids becoming integrated with a virtual training platform.

Sufferfest is a niche product and I’m not sure if there is growth based solely on the uniqueness of it. Hopefully Wahoo is respectful of their customer base who chose their products due to the integration with the Sufferfest but I’m not sure if ‘customer’ is high on the values of the company.

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Thanks for sharing. Will listen later today, hopefully.

Same concern here. I have SYSTM because they bought The Sufferfest and I really hope they won’t bury it. With the ne sufferfest vidĂ©o out I was at ease, but then Francois left


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That’s a
really deep dive @JSampson - way out of my depth! :smirk:

But thanks for the post. Very informative!

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Though it wasn’t mentioned directly, I don’t think there will be new content coming for the Sufferfest. Fortunately, there are enough great videos that slot in nicely with the training plans that my needs and interest will be satisfied, for the time being. However, eventually I’ll reach a point of saturation where everything becomes stale. Hopefully, Wahoo’s financial situation and strategic direction allow them to prioritize Sufferfest in the future so they stay a couple of steps ahead of me.

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@Chris_Wright No - I didn’t get that impression. Seems to me that SYSTM has actually done fairly well in attracting users - obviously it is not as big as Zwift but probably has a decent market share. One potential collaboration is being able to ride SYSTM workouts in Zwift at some point the way we were able to ride them in RGT. That would be a nice feature.

Not sure about “AI”. Zwift doesn’t have it. There are a few players right now that are working on it and it seems like they are having some success. Maybe that is something that Wahoo and Zwift invest in together or partner with others - just not sure how that plays out.

@Chris_Wright Presumably they have some bench strength in the content area or maybe they work with a 3rd party to do that in the future.

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I see people comparing Zwift to training platforms and it always confuses me. I don’t see them as equivalent or comparable or even the same market. Does Zwift have workouts and some training plans? Yes. Is that their focus? No, and it comes up on my radar enough that the workouts aren’t that good. The application of AI for Zwift that I could see is being more intelligent on the “For You” section, or making some bots more intelligent. More ride experience application versus training itself.

As for SYSTM + Zwift I think that would be a great partnership extension.

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I read that as “out-sourcing”. Which - I hope not? But I could see it.

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Very nice and helpful summary
I think, as I didn’t watch the vid.

@jcolp Great points and I agree that Zwift is technically on the spectrum of those with training plans but way over to the side versus other players.

Clearly the Zwift / Wahoo partnership makes sense from a trainer sales and subscriptions perspective. However just like RGT added another dimension for Wahoo - Zwift does the same and more given the larger user base. Together they will probably have better instincts to figure out how best to provide a complete approach and where to focus investment.

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I think the bean counters WERE driving the train before Chip bought the company back. If you listen closely, he all but said it. Now that they are gone Chip and company are doing things that wouldn’t be there like the KICKR MOVE and the BIKE SHIFT as they would be more concerned with ROI.

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Sir Chris: I see the Sufferfest continuing but more as a overlay for differing training scenarios. That’s something Swift is working on, but it’s really difficult to do and it looks like an afterthought. Bring in the race videos as an additional item rather than the gamified interface.

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Zwift integration :thinking: if it replaces RGT so we can do no vid or workouts that have already been done eith video watched before directly on Systm then its a good one for me.

Waiting for that january new thing.

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No more watch from Wahoo. As mentioned before, a partnership or tradeoff with Polar or Suntuu could be a great oppertunity for both.

Will cycling computers have the same fortune as the Watch category? Do you think there will be a further development of the Elemnt?

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The cycling computers continue to receive updates/features, so I don’t see that changing anytime soon. They’re also still one of the major players in that market.

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Well not interested in Zwift, don’t have a Wahoo computer, so their engagement with me depends on the future of Sufferfest/Systm

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Me too. I just want good plans and workouts with good vids to distract from the tedium. Zwift is not my thing, though I used to use it
and in fact did a Zwift ride today. Since I joined Systm, RGT came and went. I tried it a few times, but not my thing either.

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@SSaldanha Well the wait is over.

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Waiting for Rival firmware and application update. :face_holding_back_tears:

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