Again you’re really over complicating this. Like any other plan on SYSTM, they show users the way, but whether or not the user follows the plan with self discipline is up to them. The science based training is there for the benefit of the end user as long as the end user takes advantage of it and applies it. SYSTM doesn’t have to control diet… That’s up to the user.
You can’t possibly consider a weight loss/control plan without controlling diet. There’s a wealth of information out there on weight control and sports nutrition. In fact Suf used to have one, I would attach a copy but the forum won’t let me! To control your own weight you need an honest look at what the problem is: too much or the wrong type of food, or both? I know I can stuff my face on the evening after finishing my work out. I’m lucky that I’m not a big guy, but now race season is on us I’m needing to be more disciplined to control my weight, but at the same time keep enough protein, fuel etc as well. The problem with a generic weight loss program is that there’s so many variables, and a lot of input needed from an individual that I suspect more people would find it didn’t work than it did. If you really want weight loss I’d load up a training plan, include mental training and make that you Mt Suffferlandria (*ahem “big mountain” 
). You can have weekly goals on nutrition etc to aid you along the way and I would be that would be more successful if someone committed to it, rather than following a generic weight loss plan.
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@DameLisa your entire post reflects my belief as well. The middle point about out train even a moderate diet is bang on.
I can do quite a lot of things ok, but even when I’m sensible, getting below 21% seems next impossible for me. And yet clearly it is possible !!
The nutritionist person you’re using - is that local or does she work remotely ……….
Edit: Actually this was a feature request thread I’ve just spotted rather than a chat …. so maybe I’ll PM this to you Lisa as it is a separate discussion.
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I figured I’d reply to your response because it covers a lot of ground, but I read TT’s response too and hopefully using yours as a jumping off point will cover that as well. In other words my reply is generalized so I’m not debating with you specifically.
I’ll try putting this another way…
Why this is a solid feature request:
SYSTM would be a great place to offer a weight loss / body fat loss style training plan. It would benefit wahoo as a company as well. Diet and exercise is without a doubt, (and I am just waiting for the negativity to this), THE MOST PROVEN METHOD OF WEIGHT LOSS AND IMPROVING PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH. It’s not that complicated. In so far as “FEATURES” to the SYSTM platform, having such a training plan would be way easier for them as a company to put together and for customers in general, especially those who are new or interested in getting into cycling and it fitness, much more beneficial than all the crazy and complicated stuff they added during the rebranding that was designed to attract more customers.
How it could help SYSTM users:
People like simple and easy solutions. There’s no easier or simpler solution to losing body fat than exercise and diet. It doesn’t matter what the exercise or diet is, you can look all over for a zillion different ways to do it, but SYSTM has a HUGE advantage because there’s sports scientists and physical fitness experts behind the scenes. I would bet my next paycheck, in less than 15 minutes they could cobble together 50% of the plan with stuff already in their arsenal. Then it’s just a matter of polishing it up and packaging it as a plan, with some cool fitness and diet advice thrown in. Maybe it would take a few weeks or even months to do it up really nice. When they’re done though, imagine how awesome it would be for a newbie or even someone who’s used SYSTM and Sufferfest, to see a get into shape plan (I’m sure they’re capable of giving it a great name), when the user logs in and is presented with a training plan to choose from, or when a regular user finishes a training plan and wants to start another. As an example, imagine a new user who just sets up his shiny new SYSTM account and gets to that place where they are faced with the choice to pick a training plan… BAM right there, along side the “All Purpose”, and 4DP Prep plan, there’s a “Fitness and fat loss plan”, (or whatever cool marketing name they give it). What a joy for a new user or even somebody seasoned to see. This could be a solution for those who aren’t training specifically for one thing or another, they just want to get in shape and use cycling to do it.
How a diet and exercise plan would work…
Now for all the naysayers I’m guaranteeing you that this would work and benefit MOST people… Especially those who would be interested in SYSTM to begin with. Provided they actual do it, just like any of the training plans at SYSTM they’re no good unless someone follows them.
I can tell you from my personal experience, going from a pack a day smoker weighing 255 lbs with stage 2 hypertension and a resting heart rate of almost 100, and so out of shape I avoided even going into a store because of all the walking, to a non smoking avid cyclist, weighing 180 lbs with normal blood pressure and a resting heart rate of 65 bpm, that it can be done and it’s really super simple.
To put this into perspective, losing 60 to 70 lbs is like setting down 2 full cases of water you’re carrying, or letting down a 3rd grader you’ve carried on your shoulders. I’m sure there’s plenty of comparisons I could make, but needless to say losing body fat is a supreme way to get faster on a bicycle.
The downside is, that I’m not a fitness geek, nutritionist, or even remotely interested in the details of why it worked, I just wanted results. I needed a change. In order to change my body, I had to do something to change it.
I didn’t think about it at all, or try some weird diet, or spend time researching it. To me it was just common sense I had to move more, burn more calories and cut out bad eating habits. Wild animals stay in shape like that, military personnel get in shape and stay in shape like that, even people that have active jobs or looking back a few decades when life was less internet and more active, people were thinner and ate better.
The biggest obstacle I knew would be the “habit”. It took twenty+ years to get that out of shape and I knew it would take time to undo that. Of course I wanted the quickest results possible, so I just had to focus on what would accelerate the process.
Here’s exactly what I did:
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I knew I needed to burn calories and figured I’d start in the gym. I went and got a $1 trial membership at anytime fitness. I already had a hand me down Fitbit and it was set for about 2900 calories per day as a goal, so I used that and a scale to monitor my progress the whole time.
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I knew I needed to establish a habit and get over “gym fright”. So I did research how to build a habit and most experts say it takes at least 2 weeks to develop a habit, so I made it my goal to go to the gym and get into shorts and a t-shirt and do something, anything like stretching or messing around on machines for several minutes, just to build the habit of going to the gym.
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Once I developed the “habit”, then I increased my goal to spending 30 minutes working out at the gym 3 to 4 times per week, or as often as possible after work and on weekends.
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After a couple of months building a habit and working out as described, I lost a few pounds, felt better and thought now it’s time to focus on burning calories, so what burns the MOST calories? Big muscle groups. So, despite my inclination to build my chest and arms like whenI was a kid, I started doing stuff that would force my legs to work off the most calories. Elliptical machine, stair climber, and treadmill.
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Bringing my legs into it really accelerated my calorie burning and I would do stretching and some upper body and torso exercises to round it out. I started to look a little better feel a little better and kept at it, with a sense of great satisfaction when my Fitbit would let me know I reached my calorie burn goal for the day.
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After several months of this routine of going to the gym consistently after work, and seeing and feeling results, I decided to take it up a notch and see if changing how I ate would make a difference. So instead of sausage egg McMuffin and breakfast burritos I would have a MetRX protein bar. Instead of gas station hot dogs and McDonald’s for lunch, I would have a Jimmy John’s sub, or peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Instead of having cheese on everything, I would avoid cheese. At first it was strange, (still is), when asked if I want cheese on my burger I say no… As if I had 3 heads. In America people expect you to have cheese and lots of it. On burgers, sandwiches, pizza, as a snack, etc. Instead of super sizing and having seconds on meals I started to limit that… Something I read at some point on my life said that most overeating is because you can eat faster than it takes your body to trigger the “I’m not hungry anymore” response, so I put that into action and it’s true. If you have plenty of water and eat slower, your desire for second helpings dwindles.
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Half a year in or so, I had lost about 20 pounds and wanted to ratchet up my calorie burning. I started to set the treadmill and elliptical for 10 or 15 minutes instead of 5. That cut into my machine and free weight time so I did that faster. The only trouble with all that was I started become winded and my heart rate would go nuts… I figured I would try cutting back on the cigarettes and it started to make a nice difference in how long I could sustain aerobic activity.
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I started to really feel better and the consistency of my weight loss inspired me to want more. The weather was getting nicer and I wanted to do something outdoors, but I’m not a sports guy and can’t stand jogging. I loved cycling as a kid and tinkering with bikes was fun and therapeutic, so I set out to buy a bike… My nephew happened to work at REI and had a few bikes he built and sold on the side, so I bought a Novara BUZZ from him for $125 and I still have it and use it. I rode it home 15 miles and it took about 2 hours on a bike path and streets and just about killed me, but I did it and yes I got the cycling bug big time.
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With the revelation of what cutting down smoking could do for me and the sudden rebirth in my love for cycling, I started incorporating cycling out-of-doors on the days I wasn’t in the gym. Then I started to ride with my best friend and my son who were both in an amateur cycling racing club… Holy crap that was hard trying to keep up or at least hang on for dear life on small group rides while they base trained. The cigarettes had to go and after several years of my son trying to get me to vape instead of smoke I finally made the switch and will never look back. Regardless of vaping not being healthy, I can tell you 1000% it’s wayyyyy better for you than smoking cigarettes. My cycling and gym performance started to increase exponentially. I could workout longer and harder, I could cycle faster and further, my blood pressure dropped dramatically, my heart rate came down and it was the beginning of something really special in my quest to get in shape.
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Well here I am 10 years after I made the decision to first step foot in the gym. I’ve had about a dozen different bikes and have ridden 1,000’s of miles and worked out at least 250 days per year. At my peak a few years ago, I weighed 179, (a huge difference from where I started at almost 260). I hate to diet and prefer to eat whatever my body is craving whenever I want, so I was willing to maintain a 190’ish weight. Good enough for an old man.
In summary to this crazy long reply:
As I’ve clearly laid out, burning calories and being active while changing a couple bad habits can make a HUGE impact for the ordinary person. It’s NOT complicated. Unfortunately, as I mentioned, since COVID started and working from home etc. I’ve gotten a little complacent in my eating, (more cheese, battered and fried stuff, and pizza lol), but with the weather changing and me not fitting into my jeans anymore, while the Lycra looks less and less appealing on me, I figured It’d be nice to get rid of 20 pounds or so. Since I use Sufferfest er ahh… SYSTM for everything now, and having just finished a couple of training plans, I thought, “man it would be cool if when I go to pick a new training plan, there would be a weight loss one”… I don’t really care if I’m KOM and I’m not prepping for any races yet, so dropping some pounds while using what I’ve gained by following SYSTM and my new Madone I could take this to the next level this season.
That’s where I came up with the idea for the feature, because I know when someone like me with very little interest or understanding of physiology and nutrition can transform myself with a little will power and sticktoitiveness, (ain’t nothing to it but to do it), I figured Man o man, I’ll bet the sports scientists and fitness geeks at wahoo could probably put together a plan way more effective than my home brewed plan, therefore I made the feature request. I mean they probably understand better than I “why” I did what I did worked and could leverage their expert prowess to develop some simple training plan to do sort of the same thing, only quicker and with science.
Cheers 
In the meanwhile I’ll try to put together a little plan myself, but it would be so much easier to just pick a training plan.
*Edit with regards to nutrition. I’m not a nutrition geek or expert, but some of the healthier eating habits I’ve made over the past decade include more fiber (chia seeds are great for that), more water, more greens, (I love smoothies with power greens, protein powder, mixed berries and chia seeds). Protein or meal bars with fiber are good fillers between meals. Supplements like ginseng and gingko seem to help. I’ve tried various thermogenic weight loss supplements and some speed up weight loss, some don’t. The main thing that helps me is to stay away from fatty foods like cheese and refined sugar. I tried keto for about a month and I lost weight quick but I think it was just water weight and I was hangry all the time and couldn’t ride my bike worth a crap so I went back to a more protein and carb eating and got back on track. Being at least 20 lbs over my ideal weight and working from home, as well as being older with less testosterone, I’ve got to buckle down again quick fast and in a hurry.
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I do not disagree that this would be enormously useful, the question is how could you put together an non-individualized plan. You clearly put together the admirable, enormous and difficult work to put an individual plan together for yourself.
@toddsdonald I wish I could add more than just one like to your lengthy post. It’s worth a few hundred at least!
A simple solution would be for Wahoo/SYSTM to add a Healthy Eating/Weight Management plan similar to the MTP approach. It could also incorporate nutrition timing advice/info as well as tackling problems like over-compensating (just because you’ve exercised, you don’t need to eat a horse)
Another approach would be to simply add a recipe plan alongside the daily workouts to provide some healthy eating ideas. This wouldn’t need to be prescriptive. Just a bit of inspiration
I think this is what you were referring to
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That’s cool thanks. I suppose I’m thinking it doesn’t really need to be so individual… Honestly I don’t think any of the training plans currently are very individualistic.
So a fat loss/fitness plan could just very generic and driven by 4DP for the workouts. I would think any of the existing routines that are harder sustained efforts and reach into the aerobic zone would work fine.
The exercise portion of it, (cycling and strength or yoga), would just be geared towards whatever burns the most calories in the shortest amount of time, like those that got the big muscle groups and require the most energy. The mental toughness could just be enough to teach the basic fundamentals of habit forming, digestion, caloric energy expenditure, good food vs bad food, proportions, the benefits of water, fiber and protein, etc. Just enough to plant the seed and give the user enough understanding that something sticks and they can implement it in daily life.
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Thank you so much!
I’m not sure what the exact solution would be, but I’m sure the fitness gurus at wahoo would.
Thanks! I downloaded that and will take a look at it.
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Just keep in mind it’s a little dated.
No problem Glen, I appreciate it and as long as chocolate chip cookies are in the eating plan, it’s all good.
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Agreed. 
Have PM’d you bud. Give me a shout if you want to chat, might be easier on Zoom.
If there are no chocolate chip cookies in there, then it’s not an eating plan in my book. So all good!
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Ha! @Glen.Coutts @DameLisa, coincidentally I DO have a formidable cap collection…
#capsofsufferlandria
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Nice!! Love it.
Oooo I LOVE this cap!
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