Whey and Casein Protein (+ Cordyceps)

I’ve searched for protein keyword and found 50+ lines so I thought best to create a new topic for some fresh response.

Question about whey and casein protein consumption (after workout and overnight respectively). Not a dietician but I’m aware of some literature about recommended daily protein intake.

I normally doesn’t miss the strength, yoga and moderate all purpose training plan with one weekend 80-100km outdoor ride (IF 0.9 and TSS >160).

Should I include protein intake (especially overnight) as supplement on top of my regular lunch and dinner (standard chicken or fish home cooked meal). For record I’ve been using Suf/Systm since 2019 but have never added supplementary diet before until recently i was feeling sluggish and slower recovery I got myself the SiS protein. After a week of whey and overnight protein intake as per suggested use, I do feel the difference but I hope it’s not placebo!

Bonus question- how about cordyceps??

Hi there. I can’t see how these things help unless we don’t have enough protein in our diet in the first place. Essentially it’s just more calories from the protein (vs carbs vs fat) part of the food circle. Which if we’re deficient in I guess we could use a supplement for, but there is no real reason I’m aware of that adding it from a tub is more helpful than eating it from our diet.

And my understanding is that eating too close to sleep time delays our body doing whatever it does during sleep, as it is now processing food rather than calming down and recovering.

Basic non medical response though.


There’s a ton of published data out there, but here’s what it boils down to: you’re probably already getting enough protein.

If you’re concerned you’re not getting enough, I like supplementing with casein because it’s a long-chain protein that takes a while for your body to convert. Use, at most, half of what the can says to use. I mix it into 12 oz. of oat milk. It’s been shown to contribute to lean muscle mass and does not contribute to inflammation like whey can.

I avoid whey proteins because they just don’t react well with my gut and it’s been shown to be among the least effective proteins (but incredibly cheap).

If you don’t know how much protein you were already consuming there is no way to know whether you need a supplement. Couple of years ago I did a full food diary for a week, weighing out all my portions and putting all the data in a spreadsheet. If I hadn’t done this I would never have found out that some days I was barely getting 0.5g/kg of body weight of protein. Since upping my protein intake to at least 1g/kg every day I’ve never felt fitter and stronger on the bike. Getting the extra protein was easy through normal food, a spoon of peanut butter on my morning porridge(oatmeal), a poached egg in my lunchtime noodle bowl and a bowl of low fat Greek yoghurt while chilling in front of the TV in the evening. Personally I can’t see the need for protein powder supplements unless you’re into bodybuilding.

I agree that there’s no way to know if you’re getting enough protein unless you calculate it out, see how much you’re consuming (and then of course see how you feel after having more).

Protein supplementation is not just for bodybuilders, it’s for anyone who has trouble getting enough from their regular diet, like for example if you can’t choke down another can of tuna. But that said, even if you do need more protein, often with a change of habits, you can get enough just from your normal diet. It’s not magic, you don’t need to use it, it’s just there to bridge gaps.

I keep a case around to fill gaps but I try to just enough from regular food.

If you think you need added protein, you probably aren’t eating correctly and need to find a really good dietitian or nutritionist. Trying to ‘wing it’ on your own may cause more harm than good. If you are consuming more than 1g to 2g per kg of weight, you are literally pissing any extra protein away or it is being converted to fat. Exception: If you have suffered a major muscle/skin injury, your body will use that extra protein to rebuild. Experts (like the Science folks) recommend 1.6 to 1.8 g per kg of body weight if you are heavily exercising.

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I’m working with a Dietician and she’s essentially doubled my protein (and calorie) intake which has been a game changer for me.
She’s also figured out I have massive dairy and gluten issues. However I can’t stand vegan protein supplements, so am taking Whey Protein Isolate (WPI) plus collagen. That gives me 40g of protein per shake. I’m currently having 160g protein per day but that will drop somewhat as my body fat drops. The bulk of my protein comes from proper food (eating clean) which means I am eating a lot of eggs, egg white, chicken and lean beef. Of course that doesn’t work for anyone vegan. Even eating meat, there is no way I could physically fit enough food in to get my 160g P per day. Hence the WPI as a supplement.

I used to take Caseine at bed time if I was short on calories but honestly battled (due to undiagnosed dairy issues) and also all my other eating was miles off so it wasn’t helpful. I find the WPI works really well for me.


Taking 1.5 - 2.0g of protein per kg of body weight a day can take some doing. I’ve massively increased my protein intake over the past weeks, trying to mostly do it with food, but for me protein powders are needed to get up to that level.


Great. Sounds about right for an 80kg person (the sex of the person doesn’t matter for what it’s worth). Glad you sorted what is causing issues with food.

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