Calcuate 4DP Values from Ramp Test or another FTP Test?

I have subbed to Systm for year and enjoy the engaging workouts etc, but to be honest the Full Frontal stuff just isnt my bag. I ride a 3 times a week or so and prefer to have that flexibility and pick and choose what i want to do as I enjoy riding with my brother on Zwift once a week also.

Can I just enter my FTP and have the 4DP roughly estimated from that? Or just ignore the 4DP numbers?

AC and NM efforts are basically full gas, so you could just switch to level mode for any interval that’s orange or red/magenta in the workout.

I haven’t done FF since May, I’ve just tweaked my AC and NM levels up if the they’ve felt too easy and down when I can’t meet the targets


Most of the efforts in the workouts are based on FTP and MAP values. You can update those via the Half Monty (ramp test plus a sub maximal 20 minute effort). Any workouts relying heavily on AC or NM would be better done in level mode (Half Is Easy) or swapping to level mode for those efforts (The Shovel). So while you might not get the most accurate targets for NM and AC you can absolutely still ride plenty of the workouts without repeating Full Frontal.


Thank-you both. I will follow your advice and adjust the values and use level mode when needed.

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Not sure which advice you’re gonna follow but I’ll put my 2 cents in anyway.

Agree with both @JGreengrass and @TTDragon. But, to be clear, if you haven’t done any testing in SYSTM (it wasnt entirely clear whether you’d done FF and just don’t want to do it again, or, if you’d never done it cuz it looks like yakshlt :wink: ) I’d very strongly recommend at least doing the Half Monty. Your FTP, MAP and cTHR will then at least be reasonably accurate and you’ll get more out of the workouts than simply inputting an FTP value.

If you want accurate NM values just do the warm-up and the 2 sprint efforts in Full Frontal. That leaves only AC, which according to another post could be reasonably estimated by doing The Trick (in level mode) and taking your average power for the 3rd interval.


Thanks @Glen.Coutts I have done a half monty, which thankfully fairness matched my TR suggested FTP exactly.

I like the idea of using the Trick Workout and hopefully between System for the engagment it gives andTR for the handling of importing all workouts and adjustments etc, I should be a happy camper! As i do still use TR.


I’m fortunate too in that my FTP and MAP from HM have always been within a handful of watts of what I get from FF.

I’m curious why you don’t just do TR workouts?
You are given an estimated FTP, the PL’s act similarly to what the 4DP metrics are about, you have everything in one platform yet you choosing to ride SYSTM workouts and trying to merge TR functionality therein.

I would just stick with TR.

Or dump it and dive with both feet into SYSTM ethos.

I had a good established FTP number when I started on SYSTM. Plugged it in and let it estimate the other three while I did some workouts. After a FF test, my FTP came out higher and all the other metrics were substantially off (lower).

I guess I don’t understand the hate of FF by some. To me it feels like a race (at least I get my head in a similar place) and love the feeling of giving all I have and leaving nothing on the table.


…but TR doesnt have the SUF vids, the OL vids, or the Pro-Rides

I honestly don’t know how people could do TR exclusively. I’d die of TTBS :stuck_out_tongue:


… or the #science. Gah!

Totally agree with you.

I honestly don’t know how people can not buy into the ethos of one training system, but rather strive to cherry pick the easy/nice/palatable bits from each system and have an issue with a systems hard/uncomfortable bits and look for workarounds.

Further, I could never do TR workouts. Nor could I accept their AIFTPD either. Nor could I sub to a training platform and not immerse myself in their ethos, then question their science and look for an easy way to do the hard work.

This is not reflective on the OP, just my stance to myself.

Do a physical test, get comfortable being uncomfortable.


SYSTM does have some work to do on consolidating activities (ie outside rides, group rides etc) as well as giving some better and more comprehensive analysis.

For me that combo lies in SYSTM + but it’d be nice if Wahoo X did it all.


AI FTP detection is easier than doing an actual FTP test that involves trying hard, but a great cyclist once said “it never gets easier, you just go faster”, therefore AI FTP will actually make you slower… or something like that.

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Because TR is not very engaging and I lose interest after a long period even with TV Shows / Music. But their ability to adapt, offer alternatives, incorporate other sources of rides, and adjust is fantastic.

Some days I can ride on wahoo and then this syncs TR and the next TR ride is adjusted accordingly. Plus the FTP is pretty much matched with Wahoo which is all I need, as when riding outside I do not care about my FTP it’s just enjoyment. FTP only matters to me to get the right workout.

Im not a racer, just a 37 year old relatively healthy guy who has a busy job and a 3 year old. The detailed talk just goes over my head. I ride to keep fit and enjoy my local roads.

I also have no issue with “being uncomfortable” it’s just my choice to use two platforms and my preference.

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I have no hate for it, just prefer elements of another platform and the engaging nature of Systm, the FF side of things is not for me and thats ok. I enjoy the workouts themselves they are fun.

After a year on the TR AI FTP stuff, i got fitter so not sure on that one but again, this is the internet after all :smiley:

“We do these things not because they are easy but because they are hard …”