From the Coaches: Long slow duration and why it still has its place in your weekly training

Training From The Coaches
21

Very interesting thread. Thanks for the Info

22

Thatā€™s an interesting question! There are a lot of factors that come into play there. Pain tolerance/threshold is one, heat tolerance as you generate a lot of heat working at that intensity level. Also fuel usage as anything longer than 90min will definitely need additional fuel from carbs. The thing with the LSD (long slow duration) is that it will help increase your threshold and therefore the time you can maintain a higher power

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Hi @Coach.Andy.T , unfortunately LSD does only increase boredom tolerance and not pain tolerance. I do understand the answer about increasing the ftp to be longer at high ftp. In fact it is an indirect way.

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Yeah LSD wonā€™t help with the carb usage (maybe carb sparing), internal heat production tolerance (except if very hot) or pain tolerance, but those are probably the key factors as to why two people with 300 watts FTP might hold them for 60min and 120min respectively

25

Hello @Coach.Andy.T, Iā€™m in the interesting situation where my weekly long ride is a challenging gravel ride with a mate and the rest of the week Iā€™m constrained to 2-4 bike sessions of about 60-90 minutes plus a 5-10 km HR Z2 run and 25 mins of kettlebell. I enjoy the long ride allot, especially this gravel segment but the pace makes it a bit of a thrashing!

After reading about LSD Iā€™ve been trying to focus on Base/Z2 trainer sessions as I feel my ability to sustain power has decreased but I feel like its not helped for the above segment. Iā€™ve recently started mixing in a Tempo/Z3 for 45 minutes (my segment PB) with the Base/Z2 sessions.

Overall would I get more benefit making most of my bike + run sessions lower intensity to compensate for that intense long ride which would put me into a more pyramidal training intensity distribution while keeping at least one session with the Laser Goats per week?

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26

Doing one of your 90min sessions at a low intensity with low carb/no carb beforehand can have some accelerated endurance benefits as low carb availability can help with some of the benefits. However only do that once a week and refuel well straight after as low carb can leave your head groggy and is more stressful training than doing it fuelled.

The session at the weekend being a longer ride will still have great benefits. And of course some laser goat thrash action will help with some of those aerobic gains and the additional benefits that high intensity has too.

Iā€™ve not ridden gravel too much, but looking at that segment it should be possible to take that on at high Z2, even low Z3 for the 35-40min that segment takes wonā€™t damage your aerobic gains

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27

Thanks, for the advice! I will try mixing in a weekly 90 min @ Z2 fasted ride, before breakfast seems the ideal time if I can get up early enoughā€¦ :coffee:

28

Thanks for this post. One of my best midweek opportunities is my commute (I can flex it, but usually make it 45hr - 1hr45 mins each way once or twice a week) I have a couple of questions.

1/ To what extent do intense parts of a ride ruin the gains described. On a commute I sometimes need to speed up for saftey in road conditions. It can be quite intense at times (albeit for short amount of time)
2/ Am I getting ā€œlong rideā€ gains if actually Iā€™m only doing two relatively short rides? Would I be better off doing something else with this time? (either dedicated recovery, or some more intense session)

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29

Hey @Leon_99 ,
Good questions and @Coach.Andy.T will most likely want to answer this. A quote in his article gives you the answers but he can elaborate.

Cheers,
Spencer

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30

Question on when to put this in. Would it be appropriate to do between two hard rides not as a recovery day but an easier day? I am doing the new Santos Festival of Cycling ProRides and am torn between doing all 4 B2B or putting something easier in between 2 nd 3. #1 is in the books (done last night) and I am planning on doing #2 in a few hours.

Any thoughts on what I guess are three options:

  1. All 4 B2B
  2. First 2, then a LSR as discussed here, then the last 2
  3. First 2, then an easy recovery ride, then the last 2
    Thanks,
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31

thanks - what isnā€™t clear to me if that was temporary i.e. the process is hampered for as long as the intensity continues, but then activates again as soon as the intensity reduces, or if there is some lag on this (like does it take 1 mine, 10 min, 1 hr, etc for the process to get working again?)

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32

Iā€™ve wondered very similar, Iā€™m following this oneā€¦

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33

For the long ride gains there needs to not be a big break in the middle, itā€™s why a lot of pros do their cafe stop before or after the ride and just quick pit stops for snacks in the middle.

Doing some intensity on your commute and using it that way is probably the best use of time, then having time at the weekend say for a committed endurance ride. That way youā€™ll get the best of both worlds in your training. Itā€™s not all about one or the other, but balancing the two together well

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34

I would suggest option 3 for this, as a long slow duration ride still builds up the training stress but in a different way. 4 B2B very intense sessions is very taxing, but if you want to do that as a personal challenge then thatā€™s a great thing to do. In terms of the best option for training, it would be option 3, as that allows you to recover for the next 2 sessions and complete them at the desired intensity and get the ideal gains from them. Hope that helps

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35

This depends on the person unfortunately. So when some people do a hard effort, their heart rate will be elevated for the duration of the ride, whereas others can recover fully. Obviously out on the road there are hills, junctions and all sort that require a change in pace. I personally try and limit my efforts to below FTP on these long easy rides, and everywhere else keep it below LT1, when thatā€™s not possible, I just go super easy after any harder efforts to recover my heart rate as best I can back into the correct zone even if it means lower power for 30-60min or however long it needs

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36

@Coach.Andy.T thanks for the feedback. Not a personal challenge, just trying to improve. I will do a recovery tonight and then do the last two Sat & Sun. Appreciate the input, and yes, it does help.

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37

Nice! and then a weekend effort can be a more social one too, as long as we keep the cafe break until after the ride, and donā€™t put a long break in the middle. Perfect for longer outdoors Autumn country tours! And another reason why I so look forward to being able to capture my outdoors efforts recorded on my (owned prior to my Kickr) devices in SYSTM!

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38

Didnā€™t realise that some people HR can take ages to drop back to normal. I can do a max effort and my HR will drop back to normal within a few minutes.

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39

So, riding for 6 hours at once is more beneficial than doing a 3 hour ride, stopping long only after each ride?
Are the effects are greatly diminished and not comparable in the 6 hour ride broken into two 3 hours rides with a food stop versus a straight 3 hour ride no stop?

40

I am not the expert, but that was what I was getting from at least one of the posts or more up above.