How I felt After Full Frontal Today

so I did mine 2 days ago and they are slightly down since my last test which I expected and I just look at is as a bench mark for starting out a new plan and as always the big thing anyway for me is to loose more weight. @aaron.johnson I hope you didn’t mind me referencing your results it’s to understand the science behind the results.

Aarron has 219w for FTP and 299 for MAP and MAP is in the exceptional range
I have 241 FTP and 283 MAP and MAP is in the Modest range. Is this because of the ratio or my weight?

@Coach.Spencer.R @Coach.Mac.C @Coach.Suzie.S :wink:

I think JamesT already answered this.

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Nicely done Mr Johnson (@aaron.johnson). And the LTHR probably goes some way to telling you you worked hard (yes yes I know, HR variable and all thatbefore someone kicks me)
Can’t even comprehend those kind of AC/NM numbers - and that’s despite having precisely the same MAP - so go crush stuff …

All forms of tests like this make me nervous, and I’d say I go through a similar mental process as you described (depending on results - beat myself up for a day, then get on with it, or sometimes be happy, then get on with it)

I’ve also done the power off thing once, which ended up kinda ‘ok’, but made it a different test for me, so I’ve gone back to numbers, and giving myself a target. However we do this, doing it ‘comparably’ helps I think.

I also think it’s no big deal doing it ‘more’, as it helps us get used to that effort level. But that’s just me.

Anyway - cracking result - and you must’ve worked hard … that LTHR didn’t come from eating sandwiches and chatting to the person next to you while spinning quietly


Just spotted that it also says this right below the graph. Saves hunting around for the training article.


“I think what kept me from doing the test again is my fear of losing AC, which will happen if I go really deep at the FTP. Plus trainings that focus on FTP will become harder in the future”

I wouldn’t worry about this since I believe the test protocol actually relies on you burying yourself in the FTP interval to then give an accurate AC power. So if you hold back on the FTP you will simply get an exaggerated AC reading. So you may well see a lower AC after giving it everything in FTP, but it will be a more true test. Same goes for MAP, you have to bury yourself there too otherwise you will get inaccurate FTP.


Hey Buddy, no need to beat yourself up mentally, I agree with that. But I can promise you I beat myself up physically every time I do one of these test! Last time I went so deep I thought I’ll never go that deep again, but now a few weeks on I can’t exactly remember the pain or the nausea after…so I guess next time I’ll beat myself up physically once again :wink:


That part of the test is not only a measure of AC, but it is also a measure of how well you can recover from repeated efforts.


Apologies for hopping on this thread but it sounds like you guys are super knowledgeable about FF (man I would love to have been a beta tester!) So, I did a test at the end of my last plan and it had flags to say it had amended some numbers. I didn’t realise my settings were a bit off so I started the TOS plan. I’ve now figured out my settings and my plan seems… Less painful than I would have expected and I don’t want to ride a less than suffer-filled tour!! so I was wondering, if I do a FF now, will it just update my plan or do I have to quit the plan and restart it?
I’m sure I’ve seen a similar question a few weeks ago but I can’t find the thread for the life of me!.
Also fascinating how some people seem to build up the test in their head and get frustrated by it. I see it as an exciting challenge… Though I have only done 2 FF so far and I was just happy my numbers had increased a little, I’m far from being a proper cyclist at the moment! :grin:

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If you think your numbers are way off and redo the test, every workout you start will be set to the new 4DP profile, including your already scheduled sessions in a plan.

Keep in mind, the ToS prep plan is not designed to stress your system too much. The hard rides will come starting on the 14th of February.

Have a look through the forum, there are already threads on both topics open and several great articles from the team:


Thank you @Pierre really appreciate the links and feedback. My numbers really do seem way off. Like the lowest recovery spin at high cadence is unachievable (to get as low as 46 w I have to reduce to like 70 instead of hitting 90) and I’ve hit way over my highest power in 3rd from bottom gear! So it’s not stressing my system… in some of the motivational vids I’ve literally not even broken a sweat. I’ll have a check when I can slip a test in :grin: thank you!!


Hey McMahon
I had a similar situation. The Full Frontal on Prep plan for the Tour of Sufferlandria fared very badly. FTP definitely too low. I increased it manually because I found the workouts too easy. After ToF, mandatory update of FF and parameters. (sorry for my english, i don’t speak fluent) :slight_smile:

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Maybe try doing the half monty ramp test. If the videos are all easy then it strongly suggests your 4DP numbers are too low - which might be because you didn’t pace your FF test particularly well.
The ramp test is easier to pace (still requires a max effort though) as you ride in erg mode and just go until … you stop!

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On another thread I complained about the lack of training in these plans, I did intermediate. I switched to another. Training block.

A minion said there was a conscious effort in these COVID times not to impact too much on immune systems.

However it was way. Too low for me

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Depends what plan you are on. I just completed the advanced all purpose road plan and that was pretty intense with my 4DP numbers dialled in. Easy it was not! Some workouts were extremely tough to conplete and I did fail a couple of the very hardest ones. Overall I thought the intensity was well matched to my numbers.

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After reading through this, and the “Learn More About Your Four-Dimensional Power Profile” article, I can see how much I must have really botched everything in comparison to my 20-minute number.

@A.McKay, is that a screenshot from your FF? None of that says you botched your test. You could think of it as having a really good FTP, and the other measurements are modest-good relative to that. If you made some sort of mistake during the test, you would probably have got a notification that, for example, your MAP was too low relative to your FTP.

FWIW, here’s my most recent test results:

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It is. It just seems that the gap between my 5-minute and 20-minute results is pretty large (or at least larger than I would have expected). I definitely expect a lower NM and AC, as I’m a skinny dude now. I’ve never had much of a sprint.

It was my first FF, so it’s entirely possible that I didn’t pace my 5-minute effort properly. The 20-minute result checked out with what I expected based on the results from FTP tests using other protocols.

I won’t be due for another FF until after the ToS completes and I finish the post Tour program. Based on rides since then, I do expect to see improvements in my 5 and 20-minute results.


@A.McKay , I think finding out your own power profile is one of the really interesting aspects of the testing.

To get a high MAP vs FTP, I think you would have to have underperformed on the 20 minute part of the test, as I figure it’s impossible to overperform on the 5 minute test. You may actually have a higher MAP relative to your FTP than you thought. Future tests will show that.

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I definitely agree that you can’t overperform on the 5-minute portion. I think that perhaps I may have not emptied myself as much as I could/should have.

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I don’t think that’s right. The five min is a max test, there’s no holding back in “max.” So you did it completely right.

If you didn’t recover in time to perform as well on the 20, well that’s exactly what the test is trying to tell you, right? A straight 20 minute test might have overestimated your FTP.

Bottom line, you did good, burying yourself is hard. Just do the workouts anf the repeatability will come around.

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