I might try connecting one device via BTLE and thecrest vua ANT+ tomorrow on my Mac to see what happens. I’ve never experienced problems connecting vua either protocol, but i don’t have a smart trainer either.
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On my PC I use my Kickr Core in BT and my cadence and HR sensors using Ant+. Has worked great with SYSTM for me since it was released. So you should be able to use both. But it’s a PC not a Mac. I was using the built-in BT and have a Wahoo Ant+ dongle. I recently switched to a BT dongle that’s 5.0 instead of 3.0 (and still using the same Ant+ dongle). No problems for me either way.
I also did the switch to Bluetooth from ANT+ for same reason, but I really saw no change. I saw very quick dropout and return of signal with either method, and I had OCCASIONAL troubles with the KICKR Bike not letting go of the power demand when an interval ended, resulting in power death spiral, which happened on both methods also. So I went back to ANT+ for everything (until this HR strap wouldn’t show up with ANT+ so I use it with bluetooth.)
In my case, the issues of dropouts are always just MICRO losses of connection, I’ll see zeros for cadence and power but they instantly come back. I can see them on graphs later when I look. But as I said, these are just not frequent enough for me to wrestle for perfection. But I’m totally wishing that Wahoo would make a way for me to update my KICKR Bike with the WiFi option if it really avoids those problems altogether. The death spiral thing really SUCKS when it happens.
I sure don’t blame you for being reluctant to play with the setup after what you’ve been through. And I hate it for you that you’ve had to do disconnect and reconnects and wait around for it to connect!
But IF you do decide to do it, I suggest you make the FULL CLEAN INSTALL of ALL devices to give the best chance of it getting set up right.
That means it is just as important to DISCONNECT/REMOVE/UNPAIR everything that can be in the process.
Disclaimer: I AM NOT A TRAINED EXPERT, so anyone with certain training might say otherwise, but this is how I would proceed:
Remove devices from SYSTM (AND POSSIBLY ALSO THE WAHOO APP??) and Unpair whatever devices can be first (and don’t let them be powered on again for your controlling device, whether PC/MAC/phone to discover them until you’re ready for that again later in the process. This means checking SYSTM as well as the Bluetooth Settings on your PC/MAC/phone to make sure the devices aren’t still there with their previous profile waiting to pair connect. Remove them if they are listed.
Once as many connections as can be are removed from as many devices as they might pair with (PC/MAC/phone), only then UNINSTALL SYSTM completely from whatever devices you might use it on.
And then I would personally reboot any and all devices on which you might use SYSTM. Let those devices be up with clean restart and fully finished with their startup routines before doing anything else. Give time for this, maybe a couple minutes or so anyway.
Then you can INSTALL CLEAN.
Install the SYSTM APP clean, let it fully finish, and eventually log in to the app. See if things look right as to your data, etc. Maybe shut SYSTM down again, wait a minute, and restart SYSTM to see if it is wanting to do an update to itself as it sometimes does.
You’ll maybe want to check your SETTINGS in SYSTM, where Billing, Preferences, and Authorized Apps are set. You’ll possibly need to set up Garmin again or Strava, or others. (You may not have to if these were kept and applied once you logged in.)
If no updates, etc, then go into SYSTM and be ready with your devices to set up your trainer, your heart rate devices, power meters, etc.
I’m right now realizing (and just added a mention above about WAHOO) that just MAYBE the WAHOO app will also come into play in all this? I don’t even have the WAHOO app installed on my PC but I do on my Android phone, so the KICKR was set up for use with that but I never use it. Just one more possible place where Bluetooth or ANT+ settings may reside?
This sounds more complicated than it really is, but it can be tedious to do it step by step, and as always, there are no guarantees that it fixes your issues. But if things are a hassle every time you use the program, maybe it will be worth a shot. If it does work, it will be more than worthwhile, I think!
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That’s why I switched to Ant+ for my cadence and HR sensors which don’t need constant checking for changes since they’re just passive. And I use BT for my Kickr Core since when power changes don’t take in Ant+ it’s 5 extra seconds while I rarely have even micro drops with BT, and even those aren’t noticeable and don’t affect my power targets or cause 5 second death spiral.
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Thanks for the further explanation, @emacdoug
I may need to try just switching the power output of the KICKR to the Bluetooth end of things. I think when I tried before, I moved the whole KICKR settings over, and still had issues.
One thing I’m not clear on as to the power changes… Are you saying that the App communicates the power value only once every 5 seconds, and therefore if it is missed by the trainer, the trainer just remains at whatever last power value it was using?
I know I’ve read (probably from you but maybe others) that Bluetooth doesn’t have that same 5second latency, so is it more like every second with Bluetooth?
I really thought I experienced power spiral of death even when I used Bluetooth, but I’m wondering about that now. (I KNOW I saw the 1second micro losses.)
And I tended to suspect that maybe the failure that caused the spiral was really just a miss on the workout programming, but I probably was wrong on that.
That’s pretty close. I don’t know the full technical details, but essentially yes. Ant+ only sends commands every 5 seconds while BT is nearly constant. So that’s why Ant+ has 5 second latency problems while BT has micro drops that are unnoticeable.
Ant+ does a better job of connecting and staying connected, but BT keeps trying more often. So it’s a mix. And that’s why Ant+ works better passively listening for your data devices and BT does a better job sending commands to your trainer. BT is a more recent and more secure connection which is why it takes longer to connect, but then does a better job of sending commands to your trainer.
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I got the ANT+ to work by buying a new Garmin USB dongle. It installs the drivers automatically.
I did a brief test and it worked.
I decided to try that rather cleaning out my system, getting the right drivers, etc.
The real test will be when I do my upcoming HM.
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Are you sure about the 5 second delay?
That is forever in networking times. Five milliseconds would seem more reasonable.
Looking at my HRM, the delay in HR response seemed to be the normal HR delay in exercise.
I found this chart online, I do not know how reliable it is:
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Data-transmission-latency-in-ANT_tbl1_242729689
No issues with HR or Cadence delay, but definitely is a 5 second delay in Power control. I’ve had and read many previous conversations on this in these forums, so you can do a search to read many of them. I’ve also experienced this during workouts including Revolver and it’s miserable. After 2 or 3 seconds the erg death spiral usually sets in.
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I reread those conversations before I posted.
I never noticed a HR response discrepancy with respect to power changes in the graphs. It would be quite noticeable. I guess you should do Violator to test your theory. The Shovel would be an acceptable alternative. 
Yes there is a lag in resistamce control of the t4ianer of roughly 3-5 seconds. It isn’t really a problem except for sprint efforts
@Heretic glad you found a less tedious plan. Hope it works out better!
I can also attest to the 5-ish seconds delay in practice, and as @emacdoug said, it can be miserable.
What is strange about it all to me is that it does not happen with any consistency. It is most likely to be miserable on the shortest efforts, like 5 or 10 second ones, but I don’t know why it doesn’t cause similar “death spirals” even on other solid efforts. Maybe there’s some logic in that it is the shortest efforts that use the highest power values, so those are harder to engage at the start and sustain at their end than lower power value efforts, but I’m still surprised I don’t feel at least a 5second heavy lag more often on other, longer intervals at a little less power demanded.
I DID try the suggestion from Sir Evan to use Bluetooth specifically for Power from the KICKR Bike but let the ANT+ handle cadence and HR. I ran some of the intervals from Violator yesterday after doing the Portugal: Nazare to Foz do Arelho (great On Location ride!) and only remembered Sir Evan’s suggestion when I was almost done. So I started Violator to see what happened.
I set the Power on the Bluetooth connection and then did the first 4 intervals of the 1st set in ERG mode. I had TERRIBLE bog down, could hardly turn the pedals. Then did the next 4 in LEVEL1 mode, and they worked fine. Then I jumped ahead and did a few from the 2nd to last set in LEVEL1 mode, that went fine also. Bluetooth let go when it should, but in ERG, change to 600+watts is too sudden and stalls me if I’m not right in the apparently very limited cadence target zone. I figured that out and worked harder to be really close to the target cadence BEFORE the interval started and it was fairly tolerable, but still not as effective as Level mode is.
I would LOVE to be able to use LEVEL MODE ALL THE TIME and have it actually work as intended, which it sounds like is happening for @DameLisa on her WiFi KICKR Bike… I sure wish that issue had been resolved sooner by Wahoo for my bike that I’ve had now for 18 months. 
Don’t use ERG mode for Violator. Lol. 
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This gives jnstant resistance changes, but say for a slrint wffort from a recovery effort, it ramps into it, the same way I would in reality outside. My old Tacx did similar. The older Kickr trainer I borrowed literally put in a hard resistance jump which was i.possible unless your amped up early.
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This is one of two workouts where LEVEL/SLOPE is highly recommended. No power interval is over 15 seconds during the main event. Many trainers experience problems adapting to changes required for success.
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And with a power target that’s nearly your max NM value, you’re likely never going to be able to hold that power for the full duration every time. When doing Violator in level mode I hit those values maybe in a peak or two each time and dip in between. It’s nigh impossible to hold those NM or AC for the full 5-15 seconds. ERG forces you to do that. Level will allow you to do what you’re capable of for as long as you can and that’s really the actual target of those intervals.
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As I understood the original discussion was not the lag of the resistance control, but the latency between ANT+ and Bluetooth for power reporting.
If there was a lag of 5 seconds in ANT+ power reporting, the discrepancy would show up in the graphs of HR, Cadence,and power. There would be no such noticeable discrepancy.
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I thought we were discussing the latency of Bluetooth vs ANT+, not the slow power response to rapid change of a trainer.
Actually, the starting point was alchurch asking
“…So what is the best approach if you need to transition into new numbers?”
But we’ve experienced some signal drift since then… 
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I guess the latency lag results in resistance lag
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