I tried Join for about a month. It is brilliant. But where it falls down is, even tho it looked at my ride history, it put me straight into a Vo2 block. I ended up signing up with a human coach (the ultimate in adaptive training plans) and he identified my utter lack of base because I spend all my rides chasing the wheels of much faster riders.
2 blocks in and my LTHR is thru the roof, and the bade is building. It’s still a long way to go, but I’m getting there now. I opted for a coach because what I want to ride doesn’t fit in any of the workout plan targets I’ve seen, and plus, I felt like I was stuck.
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@DameLisa I think it’s telling that even though JOIN failed for your situation you still called it brilliant.
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On Rouvy, you have available several approaches to Ventoux.
There’s always Spinervals 
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@Heretic Got it. Clearly there are a lot of platforms that are in the space so for Wahoo to retain and grow its customer base it needs to find the right mix of options and also access the right marketing channels.
I am not as familiar with Rouvy but it seems like if there was a sliding scale of realism Zwift would be to one side, RGT in the middle and Rouvy to the other side. Then the question is whether the user cares more about physics or scenery or wants both or even cares about looking at something and is satisfied with a NoVid.
While not perfect I feel like SYSTM has a lot of good options at present but there is certainly room for some further progress.
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