RGT and Systm

I posted this on my FB page but thought it may stir some comments from the vast array of talent here.
“Well I have done 1 whole ride now, which makes me an expert on RGT. I had to use the gears a lot, unlike systm workouts where everything is much smoother. Some changes of gradient caught me out and I found myself either riding at AC level and fading or cadence dropping to 50 and chugging.So it was very much how things go on the road for me. Give me a session that says do this or that for a few minutes at so and so cadence and I do it, but this does not translate over to the road very well , so RGT may well be a better platform for me to train on , while systm is much better at going for specific metrics.”


I think that’s the whole point isn’t it? Implement a training plan using SYSTM for interesting and engaging workouts that will improve your metrics. Your improvements will translate to speed on the road or higher endurance for climbs. You can even test it on RGT by repeating a road or route at the midpoint or endpoint of a plan.


That was the point, translating to the road was harder than I imagined, I suppose the pro ride series is as close to road riding we get on systm


I think it’s one of those aspects that is easily overlooked.
SYSTM / Sufferfest are an exceptionally good fitness platform, but they are only one component of a cycling performance training regime.
Outdoor cycling rarely conforms to really nice intervals and recoveries.
On top of that, outdoor cycling is physically more demanding, or at least differently demanding to being on a completely static trainer, there are a whole bunch of stabilising muscles that are engaged differently outdoors to in.

You can get close with a Kickr Bike/Climb combined with a fore-aft/side-side rocker plate so the bike starts to move a lot more organically, like it does on an outdoor ride. That will help SYSTM work you far more like an outdoor workout and RGT (or any cycling “simulation”) is also useful on the days you can’t get outside to get a more dynamic workout.

I love Sufferfest / SYSTM, but it must be viewed as a tool for cycling / fitness training, not a complete “cycling solution”.


I sorta get it. But , you’re saying that maybe RGT would be a better platform for you to train on. I’m not necessarily saying it isn’t. I’m just not sure how you would train on it? What would you do that you’re not otherwise doing in SYSTM? Is it that you need to use your gears and shift when riding in RGT? If that’s the case then maybe you’d benefit from doing more workouts in level mode?

I’m genuinely curious here @alchurch. I’m not just being critical of what you’re saying. I know people who just can’t get into indoor training so they do intervals outdoors on safer lower traffic roads where the terrain is suitable or they do hill training on actual hills. Is this what you’re suggesting you’d do in RGT?

I can do systm workouts to the best of my ability, all the targets are known, and at my level, I have become good at doing them. On the road, I find it much more difficult to find a rhythm changes of gradient throw me off track easily. As this is how my ride on RGT went, I theorised that practicing riding in a rhythm on unpredictable terrain would be the key to helping me out on the road


You said it much better than I did Jon

RGT is the single dumbest decision that Wahoo has made.
Like Zwift its sis poor training tool for the very reason you point out, you can’t do the targeted sustained efforts due to terrain factors. This is like outdoors in some respects so unless you can’t ride outdoors due to weather what is the point.
For those looking like an outdoor ride replacement its need so much work to even come close to Zwift in brand recognition and capability (noting I am not a Zwift rider)
What people call Racing either have never ridden a road race or are lying to themselves. All these events are bad threshold efforts. They are missing, tactics, bike handling skills (cornering) and positioning.
As a long term Sufferlanderia Wahoo would have done better to focus on the solid points of system (and I love by the way) by building a more expansive and adaptive training plan builder.

If they keep pumping money into the hole of RGT the more likely we are going to see the platform fail.

Hey Sir @JamesJordan, do I take it you’re not a fan of RGT? :wink::wink::joy::joy::joy:

Just so you know, you can do ALL the SYSTM workouts now directly in RGT and they’re based on your 4DP profile. If you do them in ERG mode the terrain factors are ignored so you are held to the targets set by the workouts. Not my jam personally as I’d much rather do the vids but this does give you something to look at at least when doing the No-Vids.

I won’t argue with you about online racing vs irl racing when it comes to skillz but tactics definitely come into play and even more especially now with steering enabled.


One of the aspects that I hated in Zwift and RGT is that when using ERG that the terrain does not match and therefore what is the point? Either watch the video in System or listen to music.

There are NO tactics or bike handle in Zwift or RGT regardless of the ‘draft’ and ‘steering’ features. All this does is give you a computer game challenge of staying in a line.

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Such use may not be applicable to you, but that doesn’t extend to everyone else. For indoor I exclusively do my workouts on RGT in ERG mode. It’s exactly what I want. Watching video does nothing for me (or in the case of SYSTM can even make me feel nauseous), so RGT with music in the background works great for me.


I enjoy using RGT for workouts. The worlds feel a little bit lonely though. Sometimes there is not a single human rider and I wonder if this is sustainable for Wahoo.


On this point we are in 100% agreement. I’ve done structured workouts on Zwift and found it mind-numbingly boring for the same reason.

I had an interesting experience outdoors recently when doing an outdoor version of a SUF workout. To maintain the required target for any specific interval required me to change gears and or cadence based on the terrain. It made me think of @alchurch point and further made me think that there may be value of doing some of these workouts in Level mode. (I probably won’t cuz given a choice between a vid and a virtual world, I’ll take the vid :joy: )


Other than some 10 mile time trials and Duathlon’s events all my cycling is done indoors. RGT has absolutely grown on me since Wahoo brought it on board. I’d always have 5 or so SYSTM sessions every week but now I make sure I get at least one RGT session in. I look at my SYSTM plan and workout what I could transfer to RGT. They compliment each other nicely. We have a lot of variety using these platforms.

I have also just started racing in RGT and have been challenging for the ‘lanterne rouge’ in Chasing The Yellow and West London VR. I’ll do some more events as the year progresses. Are RGT events the same as an outdoor race visually absolutely not however they are fun, challenging, absorbing and stimulate the competitive juices! I see riders using tactics, working together or not and falling out with each other. The mental experience with yourself is pretty similar.

I am absolutely delighted that Wahoo brought us RGT.


If you look at the real roads then you can come away with that thought but there is plenty of riders on the platform you just don’t see them because they are using other courses via the Magic Roads. If you’ve not tried, have a go at creating your own course, stick some bots on there and you can have a great experience (competitive or not).

Just as an example there’s currently 100+ riders going up or just finished riding up Mont Ventoux. The real road shows there are 2 riders currently riding. I appreciate you don’t see those 100 riders if you rode Mont Ventoux real road right now but the statistics viewable to the public just don’t reflect what’s actually happening.

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I guess that’s the difference, majority of my riding in outdoors. System is for really bad weather, time crunched days and when I want very specific intervals.

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I really wish Wahoo would address this in some way as on the face of it RGT can seem like a very lonely place. Perhaps even publishing a live figure for the number of human riders currently using all roads on the RGT app landing page may go some way to address this.

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Just in this moment RGT shows only 36 riders among all 14 courses, i.e. 2.5 riders per course. These numbers are shockingly tiny.

Not saying I would have been riding but that would have been about 1:00 am for me CDT :man_shrugging:t3:

That is why I use Rouvy, where the terrain matters, you have decent videos, and I can practice riding to RPE.