A bit of history please

I am relatively new to Wahoo SYSTM / X having had no knowledge of on-line training apps/programs before joining here around 2 years ago. Considering what is going on at the moment can someone give me a quick run down of how the training plans we use now developed, where they came from, who created them ( The Sufferfest??), where the 4DP idea came from(Sir Neal?)and who has kept us up to date with the latest workouts. Now that the majority of the coaches including Sir Neal have gone will that have an impact on the quality and standard of any future workouts, if any, we receive. I was happy that the workouts we have had been devised by people and probably mainly Sir Neal who had vast experience and credibility in the field of performance training but now we seem to have a faceless organisation that does not inspire confidence for future training advancement.


Not sure @Rupert.H would be so happy to read that :grinning: He seems pretty active here, IMO.


Great to have you with us on the forum @ozmadman and thanks for the tag @titanicus.

We still have lots of training resources as well as the forum which can help you:

For the SYSTM content itself, we have many training plans available which were built by world class sports scientist and we also continue to produce new SYSTM content. We recently released a new batch of inspiration videos and we have some exciting new content set to launch next month as the northern hemisphere starts to migrate indoors.

Please feel free to reach out in posts or by direct message if I can help with anything more specific :slight_smile:


If I may, unofficially, actually answer your question about history, this is my understanding and by no means complete:

  • Sir David creates training videos, and sells them
  • Sir David creates the Sufferfest business
  • Sufferfest retains Apex Coaching to advise/create workouts and training plans
  • Sufferfest creates an app
  • Sir Neal (and others at Apex) are employed at Sufferfest to provide scientific plans and workouts
  • Sufferfest is sold to Wahoo
  • Sufferfest stalwarts are released from Wahoo
  • Sir David moves on
  • Sir Neal moves on

As I further understand it, world class coaches remain at Wahoo. Personally, I see no reason to be concerned about the continued existence of Wahoo X nor of the quality of workouts/plans.

I’m happy to be corrected.


That is a good overview but I would suggest adding:

Inspiration videos are added as dedicated Z1 and Z2 workouts
Wahoo SYSTM app is introduced and Sufferfest becomes a channel within the app
SYSTM app also introduces ProRides, On Location Rides and A Week With
RGT purchased
Mobility sessions added


Thank you, much appreciated content and answered exactly what I wanted to know. Cheers. Where did the concept of 4DP come from as that is the major, if not the main factor involved in all of the workouts and training plans

As far as I know it was developed by Apex Coaching and refined through collaboration with Sufferfest.

Perhaps Sir @Coach.Mac.C could weigh in here, if he feels that information is missing or incorrect.

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What is your concern of the concept of 4DP? It’s not going anywhere.

To make it clear, WahooX is the entity that includes both SYSTM and RGT.

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@ozmadman This podcast is also helpful and there are others in the Wahoo Knowledge library that go through each 4DP metric.

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Just wanted to know where the concept originated / who devised it etc.

Yep familiar with all the aspects of 4DP, just wanted to know how he concept came about, who created it etc, just for my own interest.

Sir Neal devised as the podcast says, based on experiences coaching athletes and realising one single FTP number didn’t tell the whole story of an individual’s abilities.

We each on here tell tales of how some of us find one type of workout harder than another, and have empirically measured strengths and weaknesses.

That helps me validate the logic and support the approach.

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This episode should provide a good overview:

Then we also have dedicated episodes to each component:


Quite happy to catch some good news and positive vibes.

Long live SYSTM (and RGT), keep the great work !