For the past few years Ive signed up to Wahoo Systm/X over the winter months and every year it feels almost precisely the same. Sure there are a couple of extra on locations or maybe a week with someone but in 12months how is this the extent of evolution??
Wahoo RGT added something last year but it appears to be dead in the water now!
I love the sufferfest videos and they drag the best out of me but lack of new material does make me want to try something different … tempted to give Zwift a try but no idea if it has “workouts” or just free riding! Eyes out for a free sample month.
Zwift does have workouts, but they are not a training plan platform first and foremost. It’s more of a “well you’ve got to have some included workouts and plans” kinda thing.
I think that there would have to be a shift in training concept for there to be evolution, that is, a new video within the 4DP concept is not evolution, it’s just something new to look at.
I have no issue doing some videos over and over again (I haven’t even scratched the surface of the No-Vids or the strength expansion).
Training, naturally, is repetitive, and there are many people here who certainly look forward to their Saturday morning group rides with the same set of routes with the same set of people, presumably without complaining about the lack of evolution in that experience.
There is still nothing else out there (for me) that provides the same well-rounded training as SYSTM.
I’d love it if SYSTM could help me become faster, and leaner, and younger, and restore my receding hairline. And do all of this for me, while I sit on the couch, have lasagna for dinner and watch my favorite episodes of Suf idol.
Great suggestion but no way I’m stretching to two subscriptions I’m afraid! 14day trial available on Zwift though so might eventually get round to seeing what it’s all about!
I mean no offence to wahoo’s offering and their video’s! I mean I’ve subscribed year after year for a reason … but in response:
I would call moving away from 4DP concept revolution and I’m not calling for that … evolution would be a decent number of new videos, perhaps new workouts in the strength/mobility section.
I’m surprised any subscription model after 6months being away would remain in essence unchanged in it’s entirety. I’m not shy of hard work, or repeating workouts for that matter … but when a subscription is paid I kind of expect new material to at least help with the repetitive nature of training. Hope that explains my stance without appearing in any way rude.
What would be nice is adaptative plans and sessions schedule depending on feedbacks from the rider (« I’ve failed 9 hammers » → the app switches the next session for a day off or easy spin). This would be a nice evolution. Could also work the other way round: you look in shape, let’s crank it up.
Or something like the TTE used in Xert with their smart workouts and adaptive intervals duration.
More interactive feedbacks also: « you’ve not assessed your fitness since XX, you should try one, as your recent WO max out your power curve…. ». Well adding a bit of AI in this.
@Pouto
Plus 1 for this. It’s been asked for before, but if there’s one thing that would GRAB me, it would be ADAPTIVE PLANS that take into account what I HAVE been doing.
For SYSTM, that EVOLVING would mean you MUST let me port my OTHER activities into SYSTM, and include them in the assessment of MY fitness scenario.
I am NOT one to follow training plans because I watch weather for best days/times to ride, I have to adapt to what life sends, what my wife wants or needs on different days, what unexpected things come that move my plans around.
Am I expecting perfection in the adaptation of SYSTM to ME? Not really… But some sort of compromise that at least enables SYSTM to recognize some big-picture characteristics would be really REALLY helpful.
Like seeing that I’ve done next to zero SPRINT workouts, and attempting to plug that in for me…
Or seeing that I never get enough Zone2 ride time and suggesting that…
Or tossing the idea of another Full Frontal because it’s been a year or more since any specific FTP or 4DP measure has been taken.
This means SYSTM would have to EVOLVE in some key ways to accomplish any of this. It seems it has NOT, thus the legitimate question asked by the OP.
A move to allowing rides done OUTSIDE, or on OTHER PLATFORMS, to be imported into SYSTM and CONSIDERED in one’s training plan (for those who use them) would be NO SMALL IMPROVEMENT for sure.
Easy to shoot it down because it “would take so much investment,” I know, but at least biting off some of the first bits would reduce the amount of change and investment later.
Hopefully some sort of prioritizing is taking place as to future changes…
I left SYSTM after my last annual membership expired and figured on coming back after the summer months when I need it very little and ride outdoors almost exclusively (and I don’t ride inside all that much in winter either.)
I did a ROUVY free trial and did like it a lot as far as good video, and some decent workouts, but lacking any audio, it is extremely limited as to motivational factor. It’s just great scenery and a very responsive experience with the KICKR Bike and grades matching video, etc. And the generous multiple user plan becomes VERY affordable if you can find 4 others to join you on the 5-person plan.
I’m almost done with a trial of FulGaz, which also has great video scenery, but the GUI is very cumbersome and slow, and selecting rides among the gargantuan number of possibilities can really bog down. It also, as far as I’ve been able to find, has almost no workouts… I mean, I could only find 4! Really? Maybe I missed some other way to access more? Four? FulGaz also has a 2 person membership to save some, but I haven’t looked deeper into that, and suspect of the 2 platforms, ROUVY would have my vote.
ZWIFT is as it always was to me, a non-starter. I’ve done maybe a dozen rides on it, all just ways to pass the time and have something control my effort… Just using it while my free year membership from RGT closure is still effective. That’ll be the end of Zwift for me.
SYSTM STILL has my WISH vote, but I’m probably just as likely to go to ROUVY because the above described EVOLUTION of SYSTM doesn’t seem likely at this point. It’s still hands-down the best motivationally for me, but if I can save another $9 a month with ROUVY and have awesome scenery, it’s very tempting.
BTW, ROUVY does allow to import rides from my Garmin device also (for whatever that’s worth, not a lot except that you can see them all there too? The rides count toward “career levels” for “rewards” but I don’t get into that stuff much at all. That ZWIFT-like stuff turns me off.)
Hmm. Yes, indeed @Sir_Brian_M you’ll certainly “pay… for that.”
FulGaz - look at the Workout Library on the first screen of the app, there are 57 workouts, they are not listed with the ride videos or search results. There are also training programs for climbing and FTP. You can also upload your own workouts in ZWO format and add them in any of the videos or select a section of a video.
The app has been improved in recent updates but search could be much better.
Thank you, @Johan ! I’ll try to look at that before my trial ends!
Yes, the search function needs much improvement. I thought the options to filter results would make it easier but in the little bit I tried, the search criteria wasn’t very practical for my needs. I admit I have only used the app a few times.
One of my suggestions to ALL platforms for their Free Trial periods is to make the trial open to a specific number of DAYS OF USE, rather than just a set consecutive period of time. For those like me that ride outdoors mostly, but need more time to evaluate a platform/app, it’s very hard to form an opinion in 3 or 4 rides (or less!)
The consecutive 1 week or even 2 weeks trial does not allow much chance to interact with and learn what the app can do.
I kind of get what you mean, I had a similar feeling myself recently. But when I really looked at it, I think it’s still the best offer out there.
Videos: Workouts are workouts, but even a video I’ve seen a few times still works for keeping me entertained over something “virtual” (which has never appealed to me) or, god forbid, a black screen (the no-vids I find a bit of a challenge, video that isn’t matched up to the workout mostly doesn’t do anything for me). That said, yes, we should expect a few new vids now and then, even if they are against an existing workout.
Something that does work for me is having some racing on. Road racing doesn’t really cut it for me, but CX, XC, track and BMX all provide enough entertainment for 40 to 60 minutes without requiring so much focus I can’t concentrate on the workout. That generally means a second sub, but I’m paying for that anyway so … perhaps Wahoos next step would be a partnership with a broadcaster to integrate/provide race coverage into the player (to auto stop start etc)? A step too far maybe…
Plans: These are great, but again could do with a certain amount of swapping out of different workouts. If I repeat a plan, it would be good to have some alternate versions with different workout/video combos, even if this is a manual selection (i.e. CX plan A, CX plan B, CX plan C etc.).
As others have mentioned, a certain amount of “intelligence” built in might be cool too. Doesn’t even have to be fully automatic, but could be user driven using a simple “feel” gauge. Maybe integrate HRV history and values to track how the plan should go?
General use: Don’t get stuck in the “must follow a plan” rut. I’ve now found that I tend to only use a plan as a sort of “starting point” to populate the calendar quickly. From that I adjust the plan as I go, recently using Joe Friels suggestions in his books as guidance. So I think another aspect of this, is that you don’t have to just stick with what the app is telling you to do. The plans are a good starter, but it’s just as valid to just use the system as a workout video provider against your own plan.
I’ve started on Systm 3 years ago. There have been multiple requests for simple improvements to the workout player and calendar going back over that time. None have been implemented. Very few Sufferfest vids have been added, which for me is one of the main draws of Systm. At this point, I plan on trying some different apps. It’s not like I’m threatening to leave (nobody would care anyway), I’m just looking for something more and different after 3 years of status quo.
I will add that I’ve read MANY excellent ideas and suggestions from users of these fora (ooooh, that’s gonna start it again!) and - like @Saddlesaur, can’t recall ever seeing any implemented. Would love if anyone could think of any…
but not what I’m expecting or calling for in this post !!
