Innocent question.
5x4’ FTP intervals, why do they call it a MAP exercise?
maybe I’m missing something
If your MAP targets on that workout are closer to FTP that probably means, like me, your MAP is quite low relative to your FTP, is is your weakness in your rider profile? If so, maybe more of the MAP progression workouts would help widen that gap.
What workout is this? The ftp 5x4building block?
“A very dark place”
5x4’ at FTP aren’t challenging at all, no suffering and no dark place.
maybe 5% more…
No something is definitely off. Those should not be FTP intervals.
Maybe your MAP target is set too low? When’s the last time you tested?
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212-245
It used to be a lot harder. Targets were toned down a while back, which there was good reasoning behind. There’s a thread on it.
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Here was the explainer from Neal Henderson.
Coach.Neal.H
Sep '21
Hi,
As you have noticed, there have been some adjustments made to many of the Sufferfest sessions in SYSTM. There are 24 SUF workouts that were not changed in any way, but 23 have been adjusted (not including any mashups in either of those counts).
The primary reason that I personally made the adjustments to the 23 workouts was that our sports science team reviewed all of our workouts from various physiological models (with heavy computational lifting from @Coach.Mac.C including W’ analysis of anaerobic capacity, predicted oxygen consumption and oxygen deficit, TSS, and Intensity Density of all of our sessions) as well as looking at completed workout compliance to see where users typically have issues completing sessions.
While you will see some reductions in TSS in those 23 adjusted workouts, none of them are easy. It is important to keep in mind that training does not need to be maximal to be effective. In fact, having workouts that are possible to be completed without completing depleting yourself is in fact much better in the long run.
Being able to consistently finish workouts is better for building physical capacity and confidence than is continually hitting a point of failure. You can see an analogy of this philosophy in use by Eluid Kipchoge - the best marathon runner - with references to these ideas at: Brad Stulberg Reveals More About ‘Groundedness’ and Getting Ahead 40
Also, keep in mind that any TSS value for any workout (and the associated changes) will vary for each user based on their unique 4DP. The concept of Intensity-Density that we are working on is going to be a much better representation of training load/intensity than TSS…but still isn’t completely ready to be included…but stay tuned!
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It used to be very hard to finish (for me at least). For me it’s still tough but very doable.
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yes, thanks, remember reading.
it just puzzles me that doing shortish FTPs will be beneficial to my MAP.
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Likewise, I have thought the same when doing it. I think my MAP is poor relative to my FTP, so as a result longer MAP efforts end up being close to FTP, so I tend to go for other MAP workouts with shorter but more intense efforts so I know I am pushing my MAP. 14 vise grips, revolver or the chores.
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For me these are definitely not FTP intervals. My MAP is currently about 37% over my FTP. And these four intervals range mostly from about 87% of MAP to 105% of MAP which is about 120% of FTP to 145% of FTP for me. As said before, if you’re getting much closer to FTP, perhaps your MAP value is very close to your FTP.
Adding: last time I rode AVDP, three weeks ago, here was my comment:
“Reduced to 85% for 2nd half of fourth interval and 70% for all of fifth interval. What a hard routine!”
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Must be nice 
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Maybe time for a new FF.
It’s always high time for a new FF.
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ok, my MAP seems to be really low…
As it turns out, I did AVDP last week. I finished it with my estimate of RPE to be 9/10. I do remember recovering relatively quickly from it.
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