šŸš€šŸš€šŸš€ Announcing: SYSTM, the new home of The Sufferfest šŸš€šŸš€šŸš€

David,
Super exciting to see the changesā€¦very well thought out. Once Iā€™m over my prostate cancer surgery Iā€™ll be all in and working hard in SYSTM for a productive 2022 season!

  • Alex
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Richard, for what itā€™s worth Iā€™m working on figuring out the old 4DP%s unofficial of course. I did Thin Air at 111% and that seems to be equal to the old SUF-App.

@IsabelleLeGall The new platform is definitely more than a marketing change. The new ProRides and On Location videos are great.

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So SYSTM looks great and clear. I got to say that I miss the black/red SUF colors, the name, and the bad jocks. But I accept that progress must be made (but @David.McQuillen.KoS, please!! you got to keep the bad jocks, that part of the fun).

Two main things missing for me:

  1. iCal/google cal integration - really guys, it has been ages since you said you will do it.
  2. Running/swimming plans - without the ability to export to my watch (Garmin or Apple Watch). it is pointless
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Re-platforming is hard and time consuming. So now we can expect faster and more frequent release of the user requests. Re-platforming is a case of slowing down to speed up.

In the modern age and pace of digital transformation Sufferfest might have died off instead now if gets to live on as sub section of an new app that should appeal to a broader customer base and hence live on forever.

Nice work folks love the additional content and solid business decision that will keep us suffering for years to come :muscle:t2:

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Wellā€¦ ā€œToday, weā€™ve launched an app we intend to make the greatest training platform available anywhereā€¦ā€

Seems like a good way to sum up unleashing half baked software, but at least you admit it.

As a Sufferfest subscriber Iā€™ve truly got mixed emotions and letā€™s face it, emotions are what drives most purchases.

I originally ended up trying SF because the other virtual training platforms just werenā€™t doing it for me. It took a little bit to get used to it but once I did, I loved it and stuck to the science and it worked. The name Sufferfest didnā€™t attract me or deter me though, but itā€™s a dang cool name and well respected. It would be interesting to know if the name change was truly to attract people who you thought might not have been users because they didnā€™t like the name, (that must have been some magical research lol).

Iā€™m imagining itā€™s more likely someone influential at yahoo or wahoo or whatever that wanted to assert their own stupid corporate name to the product. Likely someone who doesnā€™t bicycle and therefore doesnā€™t understand the original name.

As for changing software, I donā€™t adapt to new software well. Once I get the hang of it, improvements and fixes are welcome. Complete overhauls I hate. This is one of thoseā€¦ One day Iā€™m reading an email that thereā€™s an Android app coming, (yay I can finally bring my workout outside I thought), then all of a sudden I find out youā€™re changing the name, thereā€™s an app and new windows software I need to install and once I did, thereā€™s still no way to setup an outdoor training plan.

Then when I went to login to my PC to workout, it didnā€™t even recognize me. Now I need to screw around with setting up new software and learning that?

The whole thing stinks of corporate mentality. Use your supporters and subscribers whoā€™ve helped build your little empire, then forget them, cast their needs aside so you can get all new customers. Iā€™ve not turned it on or tried messing with it, since that first day. Iā€™m thinking it might be time to make a clean break and try something else since Iā€™m backed into a corner anyway.

Any improvements worth having, like cycling outdoors and a fully functioning calendar werenā€™t worth it to Yahoo to implement.

Ughā€¦ Iā€™m sure thereā€™s users who dig messing around with software and live for new gadgets, gizmos and widgets but I just want a good workout program.

Undecidedā€¦ Not happy and sort of freaked out by the direction of the company.

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@toddsdonald They needed to retire the old software platform because it wasnā€™t easy to add new features. All of the Sufferfest videos are still there - just in a specific channel. There are now 20 or 30 additional cycling videos as well and additional strength and running videos, an improved calendar and a roadmap to add more features at a faster rate than in the past.

Personally I am still a Sufferlandrian - but I am excited about taking advantage of even more sport science based training to help me achieve my goals.

I remember many months ago when you joined the platform and were eager to get started with your training. Sometimes change isnā€™t easy. I wish you luck in finding the right path for yourself.

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Thanks for remembering me J Sampson, and I remember all the Sufferlandrians who helped me figure things out and get started.

Improvements Iā€™m all for. Even better workouts Iā€™m in favor of, (especially if they had some for over 50 year old riders like myself). I wouldā€™ve hung in there for improvement roll outs.

What I canā€™t stand is the poorly executed introduction of s brand new software and name with a lack of focus for present users. Theyā€™ve been considering it suggestions and feedback forever, but instead they just reinvent the wheel. Corporate decisions made at levels by people who donā€™t use their own products and yet think they know best because theyā€™re great at building spreadsheets and have a fancy college degree make me nuts. The name is like nails on a chalkboard as well, and I donā€™t know what it will be like in Systmlandria, but Iā€™m imagining some will migrate to new homes while others will stay. And yes, theyā€™ll now boost the marketing efforts to promote the new software and gain some new subscribers, but will they be loyal? Yet to be seen.

All good things must come to an end in the name of short term profit and meeting imaginary deadlines. I guess it was only a matter of time before the wahoolandrians conquered Sufferlandrians.

Iā€™m not a genius, but my opinion is that if theyā€™d have simply done more with grass roots marketing and endorsements, while improving what they had it wouldā€™ve been a step in the right direction.

The product was awesome and the science worked. The attitude of the program was just right.

Perhaps they are in financial trouble and whoever is rescuing them is calling the shots without understanding their customer base and the product.

Goodnight galant sir.

If by that you mean a range of people who better represent the diversity on our planet and in our customer base, then yeah. And if youā€™re not thrilled by that, then go find another app.

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Thank you Sir David for the directness and appropriateness of your reply :slight_smile:

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Just to clarify. Iā€™m the guy who made the decisions. And Iā€™m terrible at spreadsheets. Maybe worse than that.

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New video idea: The Spreadsheet

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OMG I LOVE it!!! It can have badly executed VLOOKUPS that transport us back in time to do the same intervals again and again!!!

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and a storyline thatā€™s some sort of prequel to Getting Away with it?

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I think youā€™re onto something here!

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Thatā€™s not possible, because the changes werenā€™t a flat degradation of the whole workout, they were made to specific intervals, youā€™d have to look back at your past completions, figure out which intervals have changed and then just level mode or ERG boost those specific bits.

If you just change the 4DP levels then all youā€™re doing is making the workout even less like the previous version and completely negating the benefit of having sports scientists designing the plans, you may as well just ride an Open session in level mode and do what you want, because itā€™s neither the previous version nor the designed exercise.

What people seem to be missing in all of this is that the IF and the sessions changed anyway if your 4DP levels changed their balance. You would get a different ā€œThin Airā€ if your 4DP changed from a Sprinter to a Rouleur, so ā€œMy IF is differentā€ is something that happens anyway.

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Having got used to the change and used both the windows and android app I am broadly happy. Yes I miss sufferfest but I think I will grow to like systm.

What I canā€™t stand is the streaming issues. It was unacceptable for sufferfest, its gotten worse with systm. Downloading is not the answer. If I have 30mins to train, I donā€™t want to spend 15 of them downloading. I do not even have that option in the android app. Video froze in yoga today and I didnā€™t realise as I was holding a pose.

No other service has these problems. As many have said, I stream 4k netflix while using video conferencing. The issue is wahoos, not mine

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Wowā€¦ David you had such a cool thing in Sufferfest. Sorry to hear that you were the one that decided to kill it off but I did like the spreadsheet joke.

For what itā€™s worth even though Sufferfest may not have been perfect, it was a system that worked, (system as in the whole package).

I cancelled my subscription and will be uninstalling it and all the videos I downloaded, (work around for the quirky buffering when streaming problem). Itā€™s really, really sad itā€™s gone, and for what itā€™s worth, I wouldā€™ve just stayed a loyal customer even if changes I was hoping for like the ability to take it outside and having a better calendar never came to fruition.

Oh wellā€¦ Thanks for the personal reply that was cool to get that at least.

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Itā€™s really not been ā€œkilled offā€ though.

The Sufferfest channel within SYSTM is still Sufferfest as it was, aside from the intros, the videos remain the same.

Norway was an amazing addition to Sufferfest, but now itā€™s been moved out into itā€™s own channel with a whole bunch of additional Pro Rides, they are incredible content.

The On Location rides are a great way to mix things up. I know some people donā€™t like the GCN rides, but theyā€™re good for time compressed sessions and now have a separate channel.

People seem to miss the (fairly obvious) bit with the name change too. Itā€™s not (just) to appeal to the massesā€¦ SYSTM. Look at it, itā€™s about a platform for more than just some exercise videos in future, itā€™s a full Wahoo SYSTM. Itā€™s likely going to be the singular platform that supports their hardware as well as training in future.

I really donā€™t get how anyone can think itā€™s been ā€œkilled offā€. Itā€™s been secured and bolstered through partnership with a larger company that can secure a more stable customer base while investing far larger funds into increasing the content. There will be more ā€œpureā€ Sufferfest videos, there will be more Pro Rides, more On Location content and most of all, more features.

Everything that was Sufferfest still is, but there is a larger eco-system around it too. If you were only interested in Sufferfest content and nothing else then as soon as youā€™re inside the Sufferfest channel nothing has changed. If you wanted the most singularly effective training platform, then itā€™s just got betterā€¦

Take two steps back and have a think for just a minute. You criticised what you thought was Wahoo for ā€œCorporate decisions made by [people without sufficient understanding]ā€. David has pointed out that actually the decisions were made by himself as someone who understands the platform better than anybody. With a little self-reflection, if you come from a history of enjoying Sufferfest, you may want to think about the decision to cancel a little longer because that post itself is now proven to be rather tightly in line with what you were prepared to criticise Wahoo for, thoughts coming from a place lacking full understanding.

Honestly, youā€™ve stated you find change hard and that is understandable. Sufferfest isnā€™t gone, itā€™s likely going to become bigger than ever and there is a community here who will help you get everything running again in the new app, if that is the way you chose to go.

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Thanks for your response @Jon (Sir I think)- supported by so many of us - and for highlighting the Community. What Sir @David.McQuillen.KoS created was far more than an app of Suffering and a quirky culture to go with it. He created an incredible Community that, when the Suffering was done, really drew me in deeper and deeper. While Sufferlandria may be a mythical nation, the Community of Sufferlandrians always prepared to take on GvAā€™s challenges and always ready to help and share knowledge and experience, of outstanding Coaches who give so much on the forums let alone through the workouts and training plans, and of ever-helpful minions (hellishly busy at the moment as all can imagine) has never been mythical. Itā€™s real. Sufferlandria has never been for everyone (ask my wife!) but it is for many of us - thatā€™s been listened to with keeping it within SYSTM as the Sufferfest (not SUF or Sfferfest, Suffrfest or anything similar - that alone says a lot). Sufferlandria is alive and the losses many are feeling are being replaced by a whole lot of gains. KoS is staying, ToS is staying and new workouts are being added. Sufferlandria has not been snuffed out, just our borders have been opened allowing greater trade - that means some will leave, some will join, some will come for day visits only to see if laser goats are indeed real, and some will never dare enter the mythical nation (theyā€™ve heard about Fluffy!) that is now protected (corporately, I feel) by a much bigger nation. Time will tell but I reckon we have a lot to look forward too. And a Community always ready to give.

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