Dear Wahoo, please go back to your roots (my thoughts on the Ace launch)

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With the Ace being released today to mostly negative reviews (except on GCN, but it doesn’t count being a paid ad), it made me reflect on Wahoo and what’s currently missing.

I bought my first Bolt many years ago, being fed up with my Garmin Edge at the time. The Bolt was so refreshing to use; finally a bike computer that radiated passion and had features none of the competitors matched. A new take on the UI, zooming in and out of data fields, LED light bar at the top, very easy to use. The Bolt 2 (which I also bought) managed to be even better with colored display and LEDs.

The Ace was supposed to be a flagship computer, surpassing everything on the market right now. The reality seems to be, sadly, quite the opposite - it’s factually worse than the competition and, incredibly, lacks features of even the Bolt 1 from almost a decade ago! Apart from the wind sensor (which is another topic), there’s not a single feature I can think of that the Ace does better than the competition - others have better LCD screen, better battery life, more responsive UI, don’t weigh as much as a brick (you can’t use any of the existing Wahoo mounts with it), more features. How can a company release something that is, if not actually obsolete, behind the competition in so many crucial areas?

Things such as Strava segments, live tracking missing, slow UI, poor battery life (claimed 30 hours, but reviewers are getting about half of that in real life), a bell that doesn’t always work (and can’t be tied to shifter buttons like with other units), even the LEDs are gone! The one unique (and actually useful) feature that no other computer had and it’s simply gone.

I appreciate that some of this issues will eventually be resolved with updates, but for a flagship product, I just keep asking myself, why? Why did this have to be released when it’s clearly not ready? Didn’t Coros already get enough bad press with their rushed release? Why did Wahoo have to join the bandwagon of releasing what is arguably a beta product? For something that the majority of people aren’t even shopping for in the middle of winter?

Which brings me over to my main point - it’s not just the Ace but an overall recurring theme. Kickr v5 not getting the promised virtual shifting (although, miraculously, it can work via a third party app). The Apple TV is still missing the Systm app. As a developer myself, I just can’t accept that it takes a company literally years to port something that is, when you boil down to it, a video player with some basic trainer control. The lone developer behind IndieVelo managed to create an entire 3D engine/game with online racing and still managed to support Apple TV along the way. Even the new KoS kits have been promised for well over a year and still no sign of them, to the point where it’s literally become a meme here on the forums. Their watch is basically dead. I’m sure there’s more but you get the point.

I’m not writing this with the intent on bringing Wahoo as a company down. It’s quite the opposite - I sincerely wish they somehow manage to find their way back to the roots, releasing products that we’re excited about, pushing the limits like they used to do by practically inventing the indoor market, redefining what a bike computer can offer and even the boring (but incredibly useful) things like the Headwind or the Climb.

Edit: I forgot to mention that over the years, I’ve owned a ton of Wahoo products - Bolt 1 and 2, speed sensor, cadence sensor, HR monitor, Kickr Core and Headwind fan, plus used the Systm platform. That is to say, I’ve always backed the company with my money as well.

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Hear, hear! Keeping my Roam until they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

And re: the watch and kit. Sigh.

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@hobbyhoarder GCN is a partner firm of Wahoo. It isn’t a paid ad.

Coros has different issues with stability and the inability to reroute offline but some of that has already been addressed since their September launch.

Wahoo has a pretty good track record on updates. The v5 is a totally different issue. For that they had to add a 3rd party protocol to their device and they didn’t have the space as other functions had been added via other firmware updates. Seems like they tried to get it done based on the bits that have been posted. Maybe we will see some sort of solution using external memory or something else.

I actually like the combination of the legacy buttons and touchscreen and the larger size of the ACE. I probably won’t race with it but definitely see it as valuable for navigation on my gravel bike. I also like the revamped Wahoo App - much improved from the Element App.

Frankly I could care less about segments - it is so broken already. I lost a KOM to an ebiker and see the same rider on other segment leaderboards. I barely look at Strava anymore. I have only kept it because Wahoo pulls other completed 3rd party workouts from it.

That was a platform that started from scratch which by the way has had stability issues along the way but overall what George has done is really great.

Wahoo’s situation is different. As we have seen, Wahoo has a lot of technical debt. They revamped the Wahoo App (was Wahoo Fitness last year), seem to me migrating some Element features to Wahoo App (we saw that with the ACE launch - it doesn’t use the Element App at all) and it seems like SYSTM features are heading there as well based on the home page changes and some other common features between the apps.

Oh yeah - also, Wahoo also almost didn’t exist last year too when the banks took them over earlier in 2023. Fortunately the founder bought them back without taking on any debt to avoid the same issue occurring again. So there will probably be some bumps.

Perhaps managing a company without debt answers a lot of your issues. When you put up capital you want to get a return and also need to be careful with overall overhead.

You mentioned the Rival and I think that is a good example. As much as I liked the Rival, watches are a super crowded space. With one 800 pound gorilla with boatloads of cash as a competitor and another large one that has a very diversified portfolio of products that extend well outside the fitness industry Wahoo needs to carefully pick their spots.

Why compete if you are just bringing a me to product to the market? ACE seems to try and do that by adding the wind sensor, the combination touch and buttons, their new UI (which also seems very slick) and battery life which requires a setting change. Businesses take risk on a daily basis and presumably Wahoo calculated the risk reward here when bringing the product to market.

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For a deadline like Christmas market, January sales, or a competitor launch. Ship the MVP to hit a goal that someone has committed to.

Whether it was the correct decision, bad early reviews Vs earlier to market, we’ll see…

To summarise:

Peter O’Hanraha-hanrahan: “I don’t like it, but I’ll have to go along with it.”
Chris Morris: In German, how did he say it?
Peter O’Hanraha-hanrahan: Ich… nichten lichten…

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:rofl: That is an extremely UK reference to use on a forum with so many non-UK people.

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I read the Economist every week, so I study English as a second language.

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There’s actually quite a number of non-US users in this forum. Not sure how many are currently active, but many are from the UK or commonwealth areas.

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Just to be clear, my comment wasn’t a criticism of anybody. It’s just the programme that @gwydion referenced at the end of his post is hilarious but also reasonably niche here in the UK, let alone abroad (I imagine).

If anyone’s interested it’s called The Day Today, created by (and starring) a guy called Chris Morris. He became better known for his later, astonishingly offensive, “Brass Eye” mockumentaries (which are also hilarious).

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Also where Alan Partridge first appeared on our screens. Eat my goal!

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He must have a foot like a traction engine!

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:rofl:

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Back on topic, and the original post did get me thinking about what I’d want from a new bike computer. I’m a happy owner of a Bolt 2, but like shiny new things and what would a Bolt 3 need to be for me to upgrade?

  • I’d like it to be even lighter; there are many fools like me who will pay more to get less. The lightest, full spec bike computer on the market would be lovely. Like an Avocet 15 please
  • I’d like the housing to be sleeker less clunky; not a smaller screen, same size or a bit larger, but less bezel
  • The digital bell is nice, but needs to be implemented in a way that it’s always available (unlike the Ace, from the reviews)
  • Talking of which, different or custom tone profiles would also be lovely. I get that the default navigation beeps have to be loud and penetrating, but I ride mostly in very quiet gravel tracks with zero traffic and the default Bolt sound is very harsh; a gentle Tokyo Subway bing bong would be lovely thank you very much
  • There are also many fools like me who would pay for custom or swappable colour cases

Even if the Ace was fully implemented, there’s nothing on the feature list that would make me upgrade from my Bolt; moreover, I would pay to lose weight rather than gain it.

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Wow, the Avocet 15! One of my first “cyclometers”. Think I still have a 45tt tucked away somewhere.

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More thoughts:

  • I don’t (and I suspect most people don’t) need a second smartphone on my handlebars. Smartphones are there for interaction (touch screen) and media consumption (big, hi-res displays). Bike computers are actually the opposite, I want a display of vital information with as little interaction as possible. Done properly, a multitouch screen would never be necessary on a bike computer as the software would take care of presenting the right information to me in a timely manner. It would aim to reduce the need for manual interaction to zero.
  • I don’t need a wind sensor; instead, I want to know how the wind or slipstream is affecting my performance, and for this I already have heart BPM and power taking the most prominent positions on my Bolt 2 screen
  • Most people will have a smartphone in their back pocket while riding anyway; the integration of messages displayed to the Bolt 2 is a great feature as I can see if something is urgent or not without having to faff around getting the phone out. More intelligence in this would be great, e.g. don’t disturb me while I’m in Zone 5 climbing this hill or aiming for this KOM segment or with a speed above 80 kph
  • Integration to my smartphone to tell me - on my Bolt 3 - whether the weather is going to change, how much carbohydrate I should be taking based on my power and personal profile, open coffee shops close to the halfway point of my Z2 ride - that would be a nice use of AI
  • all these things are passive displays that I don’t have to interact with
  • basically the tagline is faster, safer riding and less time staring at a screen

Edit: also, spoken directions with the voices of Scarlett Johansson or Samuel L Jackson

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Hear, hear x2!

:joy: :rofl: :joy:

all. the. swears.

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It really concerns me that they are going down the Garmin route of all flash with no substance in their head units couple with buggy software.

I first cam to my Element after having my Garmin 1000 brick again (I was on my third replacement in 3 months and this was after having multiple 830 brick as well). I wanted something simple that just worked and decided to give Wahoo a go.

I have not looked back with getting the first Roam and eventually the V2 plus a bolt V1 for my TT bike. Each time out of the box works and never even a little problem.

The ACE is a train wreck and to be honest it will be at least 3-4 years of seeing it working before I would even consider it as a replacement.

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The bike computer hardware is really important, but so is the platform it feeds into. I’ve always felt that Wahoo leaves a lot of the analysis of uploaded files to others e.g. Training Peaks. Garmin provides a usable standalone platform. Wahoo needs to address this.

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Coloured cases will be available in the future :slight_smile:

I don’t think we’ve seen much more than the tip of the iceberg yet :wink:

Who knows what the future holds? Maybe when ACE has matured a little more we may see a smaller version for those who prefer something lighter.

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I quite agree, although the post-ride analysis in WA and SYSTM is slowly expanding.
Also, you can now import any activity from STRAVA into WA. So if you run Wahoo and Garmin devices, the Garmin activity can be pulled in directly from STRAVA. It’s the same for Virtual rides in (say) Training Peaks Virtual. If it gets sent to STRAVA it can sync to Wahoo.
It’s a start, but Wahoo are more of a hardware than a software company and have less resources than people imagine.

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