The neighbor uses a KICKR core as the only source of data. The data is collected with the SYSTM app from where it’s depleted to the Garmin Connect website. So there shouldn’t be any difference in data readings.
Seems weird. Let us know if you sort out what happened—or if there’s been a major change to the FF protocol.
Is there a chance that there’s a bit of ‘creative reporting’ going on?
No, no creativity involved. He sent me a screenshot of his SYSTM results e-mail. And I already saw his numbers on Garmin Connect. That’s why I stumbled over the discrepancies in the first place.
Fair enough, and glad that’s not the issue.
but no closer to a solution…
I’m guessing something up with that Garmin site. I always thought NP is never below average power to start with.
Just checked my last FF from September (yes I absolutely dread the FF): my FTP section has a NP that’s 1W above the average, in the MAP section the NP is 3W above the average.
Is his power constant over the sessions, or is it all over the shop? Perhaps if there’s a large variation in power throughout the activity, that there’s an algorithm to account for that?
Post-crash FF today. With the injury time off all of my numbers were down - and frankly with a cracked rib it hurt to breathe. But with that said, I’m really proud of this test. Probably as well-paced an effort as I’ve ever done on the MAP and FTP.
Weirdly, just about everything changed on my rider profile. Since I started with SUFF I’ve slowly transitioned from Sprinter to Attacker. Suddenly I’m…a Pursuiter??? And VO2/MAP is now my strength? IT’S LIKE I’M A DIFFERENT PERSON. 
(yes, my endurance still sucks.)
Per intervals.icu I set power records this year for NM/AC/MAP, (when are we getting our BADASS POWER RECORDS BACK, WAHOO???), which I guess means you’re doing FF right. And somehow my cTHR increased by six points, so the old 
muscle isn’t taking retirement lying down, apparently.
All in all, feel like if I can handle FF, I can probably get back to training, so time to get ready for the fall CX season plan.
TL;DR - take heart, team. As much as we all hate it, it IS possible to have a good day in FF!
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And you might want to revisit AFTER the rib fully heals! I found it extremely difficult to put out maximum effort for about three months after both of my rib incidents.
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I don’t “hate” you. If the rib has healed go for it. If it hasn’t, it can rebreak and cause further issues. I never want someone to feel they are ready and end up in hospital eith PT.
As to your FF results, fantastic. I went from Pursuiter to Attacker. I haven’t been in good enough health to do it again. I’m doing a couple of weeks of AWW and then tapering to take it on.
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Was just a joke, brother. I appreciate the insights - I remember your earlier post(s) following your injuries and working your way back.
I have a six week season transition plan to look forward to, before jumping into CX season - will likely test again after that.
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Best on the ‘A’ game. Remember, Fluffy is ALWAYS watching. No donuts and give it your all.
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After a bit of post FF advice.
47m, 73kg. Kickr Bike.
Using SYSTM for 6 months as cross training with running. Generally manage 5-7hrs a week on the bike (Suff + Zwift), and around 5hrs running and weights additionally.
Did HM in May, and with some data from intervals.icu cobbled together the following:
NM 916 AC 459 MAP 384 FTP 323
And trained happily completing all my Suf workouts (aside from the last sprint target on The Omnium - I know I’m a weak sprinter)
Did my first FF today - vaguely remember something about bagpipes…
NM 906 AC 422 MAP 376 FTP 276 - supposedly a pursuiter! VO2 max as a strength, repeated efforts as a weakness (agreed!)
So a pretty dramatic difference in FTP (I’d anticipated FF FTP being perhaps a bit lower but not that much!). I faded after holding 323ish for the first 5 mins.
Question: given that I’d been training and hitting the old higher HM targets should I continue with the lower FF values? Is there any gain in making everything easier?
My training goals are mainly around running (I don’t own a road bike (can say that here…?). I’ll likely do a FTP builder block again then do NM/AC.
Really enjoying The Sufferfest!
Thank you!
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Probably depends. If you’re gonna do any type of FTP focused training, too low is way better than too high. Sufferfest FTP interval sets aren’t really that challenging (I think they work up to ten minute intervals) so you could potentially squeak by. But if you’re gonna do a traditional FTP sets that work up to 3x20 or 2x30 or longer, at an inflated ftp value, you’re gonna start having a bad time very quickly and even if you can complete it, the cost of completing will have you leaving gainz on the table. So basically, FTP and below I think you want to make sure you don’t overdo it, above FTP it matters a lot less bc max is max.
Btw, what was the most “FTP-focused” workout you completed successfully at the HM numbers?
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Thank you so much for that really helpful reply!
I initally did an Threshold then a MAP block, AWW:NH, All purpose
So looking through the Suf library filtered with an FTP focus, I’d completed:
@323
Attacker
Blender
Defender
EoS
Fight Club
GOAT
GAWI x2
ISLAGIATT
9H
The Bat
The Chores x2
The Rookie
Who Dares?
Pro Ride: Mt Ventoux
AWWNH: Rabbit Mountain / Superflag / Velodrome
@300 (which was what Zwift gave me for FTP following a 46min AdZ FWIW)
Angels
Attacker x2
Butter
Fight Club
GAWI
ISLAGIATT
9H
The Bat
The Chores
The Rookie
Thin Air
FTP Progression 1: 5x6
FTP Progression 2: 5x7
FTP Progression 3: 5x8
@286 (FTP from Zwift when I started using SYSTM in January)
Butter
Fight club
GOAT
ISLAGIATT
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Hmm, interesting. I’m not super familiar w all of those but defender and it seemed like a good idea immediately jump out as being pretty damn hard at almost 120% ftp!
You may want to retest the ftp. It seems like the 323 number is very likely too high but 276 could be too low. Maybe a combination of not nailing the pacing the first time, going out too hard, and/or even just being tired from training at a too high ftp setting
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Thank you! Your emails have bought some helpful clarity.
The FF may well have been a bit of a reality check; there’s no valid reason for me to have a FTP at 4.4w/kg (and not be a “real” road cyclist) - although I’ll have to come to terms with that 
- I’d sort of equated it as a metric of fitness.
I’ve dropped everything down to FF settings and will see where things go. Prehaps a block of FTP building…
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haha sure but on the other hand, it’s also not impossible for you to have a 4.4 w/kg FTP, from an endurance perspective you’re also getting some credit for the running you do. I know i certainly couldn’t hit 4.4 on your cycling volume but everyone’s different and it doesn’t mean someone else can’t!
but for real, once you’re recovered, check out this article and stronlgy consider retesting just the ftp: The FTP Test: Physiology and New Methods
Clearly 323 was too high but if you were able to complete defender at 323, then good chance 276 is too low
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Yeah, 276 is really pleasant - but at the moment (tapering for a HM) that’s nice. “Enjoyed” ISLTA on Saturday - one of my longest Suf rides.
Might have a crack at the HM again in the near future - I suspect I’m more conditioned to its Ramp MAP/FTP than a 20min FTP (and therefore able to “cheat” the calculation) - will be interesting to see; and then resign myself to having to do FF’s going forward.
Your replies were really helpful - thank you.
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I have a FF-related question regarding that 5 minute interval. We’re told to give it everything and not worry about what comes next (that small 20 minute… annoyance):
So giving it my all, I go full speed 3 minute at 95-100 RPM, then alternate between sitting and standing, finishing with a 30 second standing effort at 70-80 RPM that leaves be almost blacking out. Even with those 6-7 minutes of rest, I’m still dizzy and catching my breath when starting the 20 minute test. I end up quitting after just 3-4 minutes, unable to hold my FTP any longer.
So I thought: standing seems to be so taxing, I’ll keep that for the 1 minute test only. Still, even sitting for the whole 5 minutes, if I go all out I’m done for the day. So I tone it down 10-20 watts, I manage to survive the 5 minute effort with minimal blacking-out-feeling, then I can survive the 20 minute part.
Anybody else feeling like this? Wondering if this is the best approach or maybe I just have a problem recovering from the effort.
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@aolariu You probably went a bit too hard but also might need some more work on recovering from intervals. A good pace is around your MAP and then try to move up from there. You want to get to 2 1/2 minutes and feel like maybe I can actually hold this for another 2 1/2. See the below post:
Edit: Also here is Wahoo’s instructions for Full Frontal
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