Accepting that I am veering slightly off topic, not sure I agree with the premise that the written word lacks nuance. Perhaps in todays world of 30 second sound bites and 140 character writing limitations, you would be correct. But articulating a message with good writing can be more effective than the spoken word, if for no other reason than it allows the writer the ability to think and edit before sharing their thoughts.
As Justice Louis Brandeis said : “There is no great writing, only great rewriting.”
Ok, but so what? Sir Dave and his staff are free to operate based upon their sense of what a jerk is. We, as customers, are free to stay or go based on our happiness with their judgment. It’s part of the give and take within our subculture - a give and take that does not require formal codification.
Of course, you are technically correct. However, if you wish to cultivate a community such as one that has been created in the past, those in charge should not appear to be arbitrary.
As far as there being no agreed upon definition of offensive, you are merely repeating my point.
Of course they are free to do what they wish. However, if they wish to continue to create the community they have created here, they should not appear to be arbitrary. Community is not imposed upon from above.
What actions or inactions by the leadership here has given you rise to repeatedly say they appear to be arbitrary? Not trying to be confrontational, just trying to understand the basis for your apparent displeasure.
I would never interpret your words to be confrontational at all.
For example, the old Sufferlandrian flag was discarded, and yet there are blatantly sexist lyrics in a video. Other people find some videos to have offensive sections.
I do not know the numbers, but certainly a lot of people were blindsided by the new platform. Some people claimed they cancelled their subscriptions. If Wahoo’s plan is to expand the base of people using the platform, apparent arbitrariness, or lack of clarity about goals is going to be detrimental to their aims.
Again, I am not understanding the basis for saying “…apparent arbitrariness, or lack of clarity about goals …”. As you have mentioned it multiple times, you clearly think some of their actions/inactions are arbitrary. Is it their not removing lyrics you find offensive or something else? What is a reasonable time for them to act/react in your mind?
From my perspective, they merged two platforms into this new one. They inherited legacy videos. If people find some content objectionable, by all means raise the issue. Give those in charge their right to adjust as they see fit. If you disagree, after they have made whatever decision they make, speak up again or speak with your actions and walk away. I can be as harsh a critic as anyone, albeit with a different focus. But the new platform is just a few months old. I am willing to err on the side of giving them the time and opportunity to fix what needs fixing.
Why is a vague resemblance to the Imperial German flag that was temporarily used by the Nazis forbidden, and massively sexist verses allowed in a video not arbitrary?
From the lack of communication it would seem that the lyrics are going to stay.
I was using the rebrand as an example of where if they had been clear about what they were going to do, they would have spared themselves some grief, and probably kept some subscribers.
I think the difference between your viewpoint and mine is in the apparent assignment of intent. The flag was both visual and right up front in your face. They saw that and made a decision to discontinue its use.
I don’t think the lyrics in a video are anywhere near as obvious. So they did not sit down and watch every video to see if there was content that they found inappropriate. It was pointed out. Now let’s see what they choose to do.
If they make a decision to edit the video, or make the decision that it is not as offensive as you believe, then you have something with which to judge. I am not going to criticize them for not watching countless hours of a very popular video series, specifically in search of offensive content. Moreover, as has been pointed out, sensibilities can range greatly. So you may find something offensive that I do not and vice versa.
I am willing to assume no malice. Let’s see what they do.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! This thread needs to die a natural death as it runs the risk of offending whilst attempting to not be offensive. Lets get back to the business of suffering!
Wait and see is always a great plan in many cases, unless your house is burning down around you or other life or property is in eminent threat of destruction. Many were very upset when the flag was removed by Wahoo. Some videos were redone/reworded. A great example of this is Fight Club. Some changes were made by Sir David and some at the direction of our gracious benefactor, Wahoo. We’ve raised some issues here that bear close looks and possible rework. As you and @Heretic have banded about, it’s not nor ever will it be out decision on what is in or out of a particular video sequence.
As to why I mentioned Wahoo as our gracious benefactor is that The Sufferfest was almost out of options. There was, and remains, a great cry to support more platforms. Without Wahoo, that wasn’t happening. There was a serious need to expand ‘bandwidth’. Again, without Wahoo this wasn’t going to happen. There are more examples, but I thank Sir David for engaging Wahoo and ultimately agreeing to partner with them to save The Sufferfest and all it stood for.
Todo el mundo se delicó!!. Everybody nowaday is so sensitive…they surley will have get their butts kiked out of Nine Hammers Tavern. I really like the cursing and pushing when you are giving your max effort, it helps me get that extra bit of courage and strength…but I guess that was sufferlandrian feeling…not anymore. From now on, pollitically correctness and vegan juices in Nine Hammers.
I have seen a lot of opera. It never occured to me that if a character on stage is being a jerk, the audience should believe women are fickle, lying, etc. If the aria is being used with tongue firmly in cheek (I don’t recall the video but being a Sufferlandrian I presume it is) then I don’t see an issue with it.
Sufferlandrian since 2010 here. Here’s my two cents:
As a Women of Sufferlandria, I don’t need a man to tell me that some element of a video is “sexist.” Indeed, the Women of Sufferlandria are a formidable bunch, and if we object to something anywhere in Sufferelandria (including social media), we know that Sir David and the minions will listen and respond, if necessary.
What is the problem with a Sufferlandrian maid being easy or free? I would hope that all Sufferlandrian maids over the age of consent have the personal autonomy to do what they wish with their bodies. I find the imposition of some sort of chaste ideal on women to be the real sexism here.
Actually, your words are worth their weight in gold! Having shared some of the comments here with my daughter in search of a female perspective, her feelings are very much in line with yours, specifically your last sentence.
She is a successful attorney and a very strong woman. She has a voice and is never afraid to use it. I pity the man who tries to jump in and try to ‘save her’ from words in a song.
Didn’t someone famous once say it’s plain to see it’s got to be free and easy?
Maybe that was in a different context, although it was in the early 70’s just after the 60’s ‘free love’ thing so maybe she was singing it in that context. Who knows!
Personally, I am fine with wait and see. To use your analogy, the house is not on fire, much less burning down.
What I worry about is that if they are successful with their goal of getting more customers, and Wahoo/SYSTM does not have some principles in mind for what is included or not, they will wind up alienating more people than necessary. Bad publicity is not good for anybody.
Again, using your analogy, the fire engines and water supplies need to be ready.
The lyrics in the video are not as obvious because they are in Italian. I noticed it right away when I did the video because I am familiar with the aria.
The flag may have been in your face, but I doubt most people here would have recognized the Imperial German flag and its historical use.