On the remastering of the old Suff workouts

SYSTM Content
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Intro

I had Thin Air planned for today. I added it about a week ago. I was really looking forward to it. Today I noticed the original workout got remastered and I had to re-add it to the calendar. The new version is.. well.. on par with the new way videos are made recently - kinda dull, sterile, boring.

These days there’s the Itzulia Basque Country Tour. The latest stage was a sprint one - I think, I might be mistaken though, I’m not watching nor following it. But between this new version of the video and watching a sprint stage in a generic one week tour, I would kinda go for the actual race. That’s how boring I find these remastered videos. In short this is not what I signed up for.

My problem

I think I’ve been on Systm for about 4 years. But I did my first Suff workouts about 8-9(?) years ago - Violator and AVDP. What I am looking for is something that distracts me during hard workouts. And these workouts have/had that silly humor and storyline that I found not only enjoyable, but also helpful in making it through the intervals.

The remastered workouts hove none of that.

Last summer I tried TrainerRoad. No, you don’t have any videos. But there’s a lot of content on a lot of platforms for that, so I managed. And the training aspects were far superior to Systm. But I came back here solely for the Suff videos and I renewed by membership with one more year.

Now I see the Suff videos are on their way out. I kinda understood in the past couple of years that we’re no longer getting any more true Suff videos, but I expected to at least have the old ones. Regarding ProRides or On Location, they’re ok, but they’re not the reason I’m here.

Know your customer

When a company decides how to focus its resources, it usually tries to do some market research and understand the needs of their (potential) customers. If Wahoo decided the needs of their customers are for sterile dull generic HIIT videos, then I respect that. If they lose me, but gain 2 new subscribers, I think that’s a win overall for them.

But in case they didn’t do their research, I would like to say this: I, current customer, have the need for:

  1. silly funny quirky HIIT videos

  2. an advanced adaptive training platform

The first point is more important. So I’ll pay for the best platform that can offer me that. It used to be Systm, but now it looks like it no longer is.

I would like this to be a win-win situation - I get the quality workouts I expect and Wahoo gets a lot a happy customers. But the opposite seems plausible - a lose-lose scenario, where I no longer get what I want and the company loses its old customer, without acquiring new ones.

I don’t know if this message can change anything. I sure hope it could, as I’m quite attached to the old Suff workouts and seeing the new Thin Air today made me a little sad/nostalgic. But I’m not the first to express such views, probably not the last.

I’ll see what happens in the next few months and I’ll try to do as many of the remaining Suff workouts. But, as it stands, this looks like my last year as a Systm customer.

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Same here. Membership up for renewal in August and looking at options.

I thought I came here for the training, turns out I came here for the snarky humour in the videos.

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Well written, agree 100%

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Hear, hear. Sadly.

:face_with_diagonal_mouth:

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:clap:t2: :clap:t2: :clap:t2: Sooooo well written @aolariu !!

100%. That is what brought me to SUF, that is what keeps me in SYSTM.

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Very very well said. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I hope I’m not asking for much, but…

Wahoo support and management don’t seem to listen or care about what gets posted in this forum. And you are definitely not alone in this. So…

Can you please, please, also email this to Wahoo support? :folded_hands: I think that is really the only way they will listen. The more of us that email them the better.

And if that doesn’t change their mind, then… At least we tried.

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Totally. More Suff!!! On Location? meh. Inspiration? nope. No-Vids? WTF?

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I actually just renewed yesterday, not because I like the direction things are going, but because I wanted to enjoy what was here while it lasted. I’m not too optimistic things will change. But I agree, if things don’t improve by next year I probably won’t renew.

I almost jumped ship this year to try adaptive training but stayed for the content as well (and 4DP which is superior to everything else, especially when you’re an Attacker like me). Without the content, SYSTM doesn’t offer enough in my opinion, even with 4DP. Now if they add adaptive training that changes everything (IMO).

I do wonder if the licensing issues caught Wahoo by surprise and they are having to throw together quick videos to bridge the gap until they have time to build it up right again. Here’s to hoping that’s the case.

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100% agree. If I just want to workout and do intervals, just about any platform can provide that, and I am fully capable of creating my own interval workouts (albeit more even and repetitive than the usual Suff ones where every interval is slightly different).

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That is a good point. I just opened a ticket on this issue. Fingers crossed.

I also realised I’m basically saying “Hey Wahoo, I will give you my money if you DO NOTHING!”. Other companies would die to be in this position… :confused:

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One wonders how this could possibly be. I mean, a little due dilligence…

:thinking:

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I don’t know for sure but I find it very hard to believe that licenses couldn’t have been renewed or renegotiated or a royalty offered instead based on the number of plays. I can’t imagine any content owner who’d be unwilling to get some extra cash or in kind exchange of Wahoo product or cross-marketing or any other reasonable compensation.

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In many cases, however, we’re talking about the UCI, an organization known for their logical, fair, and public-minded decision making.

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Point taken but when there’s a will…

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I have some doubts regarding the licensing issue being the only reason behind remastering the workouts. While that may trigger the process, it doesn’t explain why the storyline, jokes and overall entire feel of the workout are dropped. In most cases there’s little connection between the storyline and the actual footage. One can replace a clip of an attack with another clip of an attack and the storyline doesn’t need changing. One can replace a clip with a yellow rider with a clip of another yellow rider and the jokes about Butterboy are still valid.

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100%. Losing the humour and killing the storylines or disconnecting them from the footage, more than anything else, is exactly what’s killing me.

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So, here’s a thought. Sending a message to the minions will likely be met with some stock response and not because Dame Ellisa doesnt care, I genuinely believe she’s one of the few that do, but because I think she’s gonna be made to tow the line of whatever management wants.

BUT, you could send your messages/complaints/concerns etc direct to the CEO of the company. I think Chip has probably removed himself from the day to day but it couldn’t hurt to let the new(ish) guy know that things are NOT okay.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/gareth-joyce-8b561a338

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I recall an old discussion, back when the (previous) company used to openly discuss things with its customers, that suggested that a big reason for the move to subscription v download, other than piracy, related to content licensing. DMcQ used to pay a one off fee for footage and take on the risk that enough people would buy the video to cover the costs. Moving to subscription may well have enabled a subscription model for the footage too. No idea what deals may have been done but can imagine a % of the subs going to the content provider (be that UCI, other cycling rights holder, Abi Carver for yoga etc). And I can also imagine that maybe that % is no longer enough for the rights holder and/or, more likely, the (new) company is trying to cut costs.

I’m OK with footage being replaced when new deals can’t be done, that’s business. I’m not OK with footage being replaced with bland soulless content that’s no longer artfully crafted to fit the story and workout, that’s cost saving taken too far, remove the engagement = remove the appeal. And I’m definitely not OK with the stories being blandified because somebody in the (new) company thinks that might broaden the appeal. But then maybe there are 100 new subscribers for every 1 old schooler like me that prefer the new over the old :water_pistol::man_shrugging:

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Exactly. :clap::clap::clap:

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Yes, yes.

I’m fully in on this.

I am not an indoor cyclist, I am a Sufferlandrian.
Sufferfest was the thing that hooked me to adding indoor training to my outdoor rides. I love the humour, I love the videos, I love the ethos.

I simply have absolutely zero interest in anything else, consistently, indoors outside of ProRides. I like the ProRides every so often and an off day I might do an OnLocation.
I might subscribe to a systm (Ha) that centered around ProRide style content. I wouldn’t around one where OnLocation was the primary and I have less than zero interest in a Peloton clone.

I’m doing less and less indoor work, I’m sticking outdoors and having got back into running it’s a sufficient supplement on days its too nasty to cycle.
I will come back to Sufferfest in the off season, but only if it’s Sufferfest.

Without that, I really only see myself MyWooshing if I really need to cycle on a day it’s awful outside. I far, far prefer a good Suf session, but the volume of them is decreasing and as the package moves away from them I have less interest in it as a whole also. The community that sat around it was also a huge thing, the discussion, the camaraderie and it is slowly, sadly dissipating.

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