Simulate Power Changes on 4DP Results -

Hello Guys, just made my first 4DP Full Frontal test and got Time Trialist as a rider type.

I’m now weighting 70kg and got NM 702w / AC 412w / MAP 352 / FTP 305

There’s any place I could calculate how much my FTP should be to be considered as a Climber, or to know what the relation between FTP and the others metrics should be? I think I went pretty bad at the FTP test, since I did 300w for 40 minutes in a climb last weekend.

I do came from a triathlon background but I feel pretty good on climbs also.

Thanks a lot

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I can’t answer how SYSTM determines rider type, so am not sure what attributes get you classified as a Climber.

What power measurement did you use for Full Frontal and the climb test (same or different devices)? Were you on the same bike and holding the same position? Most folks will measure different FTP values between indoor and outdoor.

If anything, from those results your FTP is by far the strongest of your performances. I’m pretty similar to you, 72-73 Kg and my last FF was NM 958 / AC 485 / MAP 365 / FTP 304. That makes me a time trialist as well with a weakness in VO2 Max (I think a rough rule of thumb is when MAP is below 1.2x FTP that’s a weak spot). The only time I haven’t been a TTer was my first FF after a long layoff where my FTP was so bad it made the other ones look better :slight_smile:

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Yes, same devices, same bike but with a higher fatigue in the legs due to strenght training on Tuesday. On a normal 20’ FTP test I think my power output should aim to 315-320w with the 5% discount.

I wanted to know if that power output would change my rider type or not… but I think it will stay for another day…

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Climber has a similar profile to Time Triallist, but takes into account power to weight, you’ll get climber if your W/kg is above a certain level somewhere north of 4.??w/kg

Rider type is used by SYSTM to customise training plans to work on your strengths and weaknesses with respect to the goal of the training plan. The only way to change rider type is to do Full Frontal again. If you feel like it…

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Hahaha not for a while I guess…

But thanks for your help, you’re probably right about that w/kg relation… I’ll update here on the next Full Frontal…

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If I recall, I think wahoo intentionally obfuscates their methodology so that each 4DP remains a blind experiment, ie so people don’t intentionally or accidentally “game” it to get the type they think they want.

In case it’s helpful, I did 4 FFs (COVID last year disrupted me), they are here below. I was an attacker after the first one (last on the list bc reverse chron), a climber after all the others (I weighed about the same in the low 150 lbs range)


so just eyeballing, my guess is you’re right on the cusp of time trialist vs. climber and if your FTP goes up even a small number of watts, or your weight comes down even just a kg, you might flip to climber.


Very close numbers to mine’s. Looks like the w/kg ratio really is considered between time trialist and a climber. That’s the answer I was searching for! Thank you so much!


no problem, and that was exactly my conclusion too (and yes, our numbers are super close, hence why i thought it might be instructive).

interesting thing is that my AC kept going up alongside my FTP and it never flipped me back to Attacker

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Impressive watts! But that little icon in the top tells me you need to hurry up and ride Recharger. :slight_smile:

Screen Shot 2023-02-09 at 4.46.26 PM


haha thank you!