Training with 4DP profile (slightly confused) All Purpose or Building Blocks

Hi guys,

I am relatively new to the forum and have been trying to search for an answer based on my 4DP test result which is Pursuiter. I have been using Systm since Sept 2022 and done 2 HM and 1 FF.

I asked my friend who introduced me to Systm and said I should focus more on MAP based training (building blocks) tho however what I have been reading on this forum I feel that I should focus on sustained efforts which is FTP (gut feeling). Do correct me if I’m wrong.

Planning to kick things up a notch or 2 to get better as I am currently on my first week of All Purpose. I know training plans are based off the rider profile so should I go with the All Purpose or Building Blocks?

So currently my stats are
NM : 774
AC : 300
MAP : 205 (previously it was 211 based on the last FF)
FTP : 168 (which was updated based on the last HM) previously it was 154 when I did FF.

Last test HM was in 18 April. Hoping to get some guidance so I don’t waste the effort on the current plan.

Oh one more question, is FTP and MAP intertwined?

Thanks. Looking forward to reading your responses.

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Welcome to the forums @MCwick!

The types of efforts you should focus on depend to a large extent on what your goals are. So, if you are looking to do some Time Trials for example, and you struggle with long sustained efforts then it would make sense to do a TT plan and/or focus on rides with long sustained efforts. This would help both physically and mentally in developing the mental strength for these types of efforts.

You say you’re planning to kick things up a notch or 2 to get better, but better at what?

Imho, when planning to plan, the first thing you must consider is your goal. Once that is clear, the rest will follow quite easily. The mental training plan is a fantastic tool worth completing at least once if you haven’t done it before. It’s helped me achieve things I’d have never thought possible before.

As to your question of FTP and MAP being intertwined, the answer is yes, 100%. The floor of your MAP is often considered the ceiling of your FTP so if you want to increase your FTP you should indeed look at working to increase your MAP.

Hope this helps a bit.


Thanks @Glen.Coutts for the explaination. Definitely helped.

My goal now is to train up so I can join the local weekly night ride (40km) where the average speed is way too high up. So that is the plan for now to increase my average speed up to par instead of being alone at the back :rofl:

So my guess is to keep at the All Purpose training plan for now.
Will definitely take up the mental training plan soon.



So there was a group I used to ride with on Tues and Thursday mornings. 0-40kmh off the gun and didn’t let up for the 30ish mins out then same thing for the return. My goal was to hang on as best I could knowing I’d get dropped but as the season went on, the place I got dropped became further and further out.

I never completed a ride without getting dropped at some point by the superfasties, but I was never alone so I called that a win :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I’m thinking working on your MAP will help but so will fast group rides where you can really learn to take advantage of the draft.

Good luck.

Edit: A lot of rides start HOT then settle in, so learning to put out big efforts then settle into an uncomfortable tempo might aid you here too. Who Dares and The Bat are perfect for that kind of riding.


Hahaha! I guess I will have to find out when I go for a ride with them.

I haven’t experimented trying a workout plan outdoor yet while on a group ride on weekends as i’m constantly looking out for vehicles or pedestrians. Where I am from in Asia, traffic is bad and the drivers and motorbikes do run red lights and some have no respect for cyclists. So that’s that.

I think I have decided to stick with the All Purpose plan for now and complete it 100% and see how it goes. It’s hard to stick to it when friends ask for a ride on the weekends and I do mountain biking and gravel as well.

Dreading the day when FF is scheduled as I was seeing stars and next couple of days had running nose after the first FF :sweat_smile:


On the rare occasion where I’m actually doing a formal plan (I’ve started plans many MANY times, but I’m not sure I’ve ever fully completed one, aside from the MTP) when the weekend comes up, I’d invariably do the outdoor group ride rather than the scheduled workout. There’s a couple clubs I ride with and each offer different challenges that I’ve always thought were good enough substitutions for the formal plan. That and it’s WAY more fun riding in a group than alone on my trainer.


Good to know. I think my friend did mentioned about this as well. Substitute the planned workout the ride on the weekends as a workout tho its mostly about riding to the destination for food :yum:
It is much more relaxed in some ways and yeah all about the company on the ride.

Well I think I have a much clearer understanding now. Boils down to trial and error as well to get to know more of my body response to training since its so individualised.

Thanks again Glen

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I’m always happy to help someone to suffer. Perhaps others will weigh in here too. The coaches often linger here and there are more than a few VERY experienced cyclists with much more to offer.


Don’t forget Butter is a MAP workout to Sweet Spot. 90 seconds at MAP. The beauty of this workout. The Cure is a short workout that hrlps with longer duration surges.
On thing is to get out there and mix it up. You will get stronger and notice what kind of workout you’ll need. The local group ruses here all have a 10-15 minute warmup. After that, it’s game on.


Sweet!!! So much workout plans to discover! I do like 9 hammers, revolver 14 vice grips and few more I have forgetten the names of.

Thanks for the kind words.

I am also a Pursuiter… I did my first 4DP in early December. I spent some time getting familiar with SYSTM X and RGT for a week or two first and then started a FF prep plan for that first test. Following that I did a 4-week Threshold block.

After my Threshold Block, I did some Monthly challenge badge hunting and made sure to get in the videos that were disappearing in both January and February. I also focused on FTP training sessions in there to fill out my schedule while I waited for the Tour Prep plan to be released.

I did the HM test prior to starting the Tour of Sufferlandria (Wahoolimabob Tour) training plan. I supplemented by doing RGT Social Rides that fit my schedule for the Tour Prep plan as well and the occasional RGT race.

I sprinkled in Yoga here and there all winter and throughout the Wahoolimabob Tour.

Post-Tour I did another FF Test prep week, this time the version with the HM mid-week (my recommendation is to always use this version if you have the time). After 105 days, I increased my FTP by almost 25%. I’m still a Pursuiter, but my weakness went from FTP (low threshold relative to my MAP) to now my Anaerobic Capacity is low relative to my new FTP. Everything was up from my original FF test. HM put my FTP higher then the FF test - in the end, I set my FTP between the two values, as I wasn’t having any trouble hitting the FF test number. This seems to have worked well.

For kicks (and to work on my weaknesses) in April, I just did a low volume AC/NM block, but riding season is also upon me so I am riding outdoors a fair amount and had to restart the block once and missed a few workouts here or there.

While I think that the All Purpose plan should suit you, you might try a Threshold block next go around. I’m also curious to check out these new Cycling Essentials plans.


Stick with All Purpose, if you can follow the plan, subbing in some outdoor time as appropriate, you will find you get faster / fitter/stronger.

Training your legs to keep up with groups is it’s own skill for me, so as Sir Glen days, join and hang on, they will make you faster / better able to sustain the intense efforts as well.


Thanks Beats. I do plan to stick and finish the plan for now and the rest did give me some ideas for what do after completing it.

Hi jesawdy. Awesome to hear another pursuiter experiences on how to get on with a plan and grats on improving your FTP. Thats a huge increase!

So you prep with the 7 day plan and after that a Threshold Building Blocks, the Tour and sprinkled some of your own FTP workout.

For the RGT rides, did you go on zone 2 pace?

A Threshold block? Will keep in mind once I finish off the current plan and see how I fared.


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For the Wahooligan Tour RGT social rides, they were rubber-banded but I rode most fairly hard but no real need to. The ones I attended were in the evening after work and I was usually somewhat recovered from whatever workout I may have done in the AM. I also did some early morning TDU-associated/inspiredRGT rides that I rode like a “race,” one a week for one month.

That said, I did do lots of Zone 2 all winter, everything prescribed in the plans, a good few outgoing videos, plus I commuted to work by bike 20 minutes each way, greater than 75% of the time.

Now, with plenty of outdoor riding becoming available, I am giving myself quite a bit more rest in my schedule, days off etc, even a little less commuting the last month or so, but my weekly mileage is pretty consistent.


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Rubber banded meaning?

Meaning that the group stays together. I’m not sure exactly what the algorithm is, but I think the fastest riders are slowed down a touch and the slower riders are sped up a touch, so that everyone is pulled along in the group at some variation of the groups average speed. There is still separation in the group, but you will not get dropped. Also, if you are late to the event, or have to get off the bike and stop for awhile (in which case you will be dropped), you can “teleport” to another rider in the pack and get back in… I think you can even teleport backwards if you wanted to (if you don’t cross the finish line of the event beforehand). Using this feature, I think you can teleport backwards and finish with the end of the group if you wanted to and extend your workout, or socialize with another portion of the group.

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Kinda confusing. Probably will take time to get accustomed to it

I don’t really like the feel of RGT but might give it a shot for some period of time since May challenge is on now

Sounds so like where I am located. Hahaha.
But back on the topic, the All Purpose plan is a good starting point and I echo Sir @Glen.Coutts’ sentiment that, for the Building Blocks, it really depends on what you are training for. The fact that SYSTM’s training plans are tailored to our individual performance metrics, you will see improvement in most metrics (although I have seen one or two of my metrics taking a slight dip while the others went up) when you do another FF at the of the training plan.

When it comes to rider profile, I have had mine changed twice, maybe thrice since I arrived at SUF, was first a Pursuiter then an Attacker and then a Sprinter and then back again to an Attacker in my most recent FF.
And ironically, one of my favourite rides is Attacker besides Defender, The Chores and Shovel :smiley:


Yep! :rofl:

So I will take the time again to complete it first then set my next target based on my goal.


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