What is the right training plan to tackle my weakness?

Hi everyone,

I just finished my Full Frontal test and am pleased with my results. I got classified as an Attacker, with a weakness in sustained efforts. As FTP works as a physiological base line for most other 4DP metrics (at least from my understanding) it makes sense to me to tackle this area in my next plan. Here are my results from the test:
image

This leads me to my problem: What is the right plan for me? I did do a 12 week all purpose plan that gets adjusted considering my rider type (right?). Should I just do that again or is one of the plans focussing on a specific 4DP metric better suitable? If the latter is advisable which one should I pick? From my understanding Base, Threshhold and Tempo all “focus” on FTP. What I´ve seen on this Forum before is that you can also “cheese” SYSTM by using an event prep plan to focus specific 4DP areas.

Thanks in advance
Phil

What is your goal?

3 Likes

As FTP works as a physiological base line for most other 4DP metrics (at least from my understanding) it makes sense to me to tackle this area in my next plan.

→ Improve my FTP. Sorry if I did not make that clear enough.

Disclaimer: I’m not a coach

First: well done on those numbers, that’s good stuff.

As I understand it, you want to be working on MAP and FTP. They’re currently in a nice balance, so in order to improve FTP, you need to work on MAP too.

As for what training to pick, perhaps it’s also nice to understand what you want to get out of your cycling. Once you figure out what your goals are, work towards that and pick a plan to work towards that goal. Do you have a race, grand fondo, sportive or personal challenge that you have in mind?

I think it’s a lot more motivating to work towards a more tangible target than a a set of digits in FF. And you’re right, picking a plan for an event, will give you a plan that’s tailored to your rider profile which will give you those digits in the end anyways.

5 Likes

I do have a climb in my neighbourhood I want to improve my PB on. It isn´t awfully long but FTP being a base-line metric I figured it would be best to improve that in order to gain performance overall.
With the focus on FTP in mind I was just wondering which plan would be the most suitable. All Purpose fitness plan, One of the general fitness plans that focuses on a specific 4DP metric (which one? Base, Tempo, Threshold all seem to focus FTP?), or an event prep plan (never did one of those).

Thanks for your replies.

I also have a sustained weakness and have had good results by following the Time Trial Plan every so often. This is irrespective of whether you want to do a time trial or not, rather the focus on sustained efforts makes you better at sustained efforts!

2 Likes

How long is “not awfully long”? I ask more out of curiosity than anything else.

The bottom line is ANY plan you pick will be tailored and adjusted to improve your weakness. That said, if the general goal is to increase FTP, the SUF Sport Scientists have made it clear that raising your MAP, which acts as a ceiling for FTP will help raise your FTP so you might consider choosing one of the MAP blocks. The nice thing about these is that they’re short and you can see if you’ve improved on your neighbourhood climb.

FWIW, the two vids Short KOM and Long KOM from AWW Phil Gaimon, are specifically designed to work on that type of goal so even if these don’t show up in your plan, you may want to consider subbing them in.

So if it were me, I’d pick either the MAP building block or the Threshold building block plan. Short, straight to the point, and you’ve got a local hill to test out improvements on.

Nice results too btw!

4 Likes

Yep. 4DP has me identified as being a sprinter. My goal was improving long sustained climbing, so I alternated 4 week MAP and 4 week Threshold plans and saw very good results.

5 Likes

Thanks for your advice. The climb in question ist 7 km and pretty shallow (2-3 %) with a short descent in the middle of it. I typically need around 20 min to finish it.
MAP acting as a ceiling for FTP is news to me. That´s great to know :+1:

1 Like

Thanks for your perspective. I will give alternating MAP and Threshold plans a shot.

This is worth reading, there are other articles too where Sir Mac has mentioned this:

Roughly equivalent to your power at VO2 Max, MAP is determined in Full Frontal by an all-out, 5-minute effort. In physiological terms, it represents the upper limit of your body’s ability to use oxygen to produce power. More than that, MAP also acts as a ceiling on your FTP. In other words, your FTP will always be below and constrained by your MAP. While everyone’s MAP to FTP ratio is different, there are limits to how close—or far apart—they can be. When reasonably fresh, your MAP can’t be lower than 115% of your FTP. You can do as much tempo and threshold work as you want, but until you increase your MAP, your FTP simply won’t go up.

2 Likes

Since my last 4DP, my weakness was and still are the VO2 efforts and as such, I normally select the MAP focused sessions in the library.

As most have already mentioned, to work on the FTP, we would need to work on the MAP first. :wink:

As others have mentioned, working on MAP will help boost up your ‘ceiling’ and then you can work at increasing the percentage of this ceiling that you can sustainably work at by doing more FTP work. Using the building blocks is a good way of doing this. For more in depth help and info you can book a call with coach to get more recommendations of what best to do based on your results, goals and time availability

1 Like

Any plan you get is going to get adjusted to your weakness. Let it be a All Around, Mountain GF, any of the plans will focus on your weakness, but, also improving your strong suits.

I wish you could get it to assess you on new numbers, without having to do the 4DP again. So, I did the 4DP and it said MAP was my weakness. I’ve worked on that a lot and it’s increased around 15% I think. I’d love to now know if it’s still considered weak, just by entering my new 4DP numbers…

(Yes, I know I really should just do the 4DP again… :hot_face: )

2 Likes

It could be that although your MAP has improved, it is still relatively low compared to the other metrics. That doesn’t detract from your achievement of increasing it, but there should be even more room for improvement and to get quicker

Yes, it ‘could’ be low. That’s my point. I’d love to enter it and the system tell me…

Is it possible to get the result… you have no weaknesses?

@AndyCr15 Take a ramp test - that will tell you your new MAP. The weakness is based on the ratio of MAP to FTP. I believe around 125% is average and higher or lower indicate strengths or weaknesses in MAP.

Yes, I have my new MAP… it is about 121%… so what should I work on now?

Again, I get it, I should man up and just do a 4DP again. I’m just saying, it might be nice to be able to enter the 4 metrics and have it give me an assessment.