What will happen with SYSTM / SUF after the last round of layoffs?

With the news that the Sports Science center in Boulder was closed and Neal Henderson updating his LinkedIn that he’s no longer working for Wahoo I’m wondering what Wahoo’s plans are for the SYSTM app.

Is there a realistic possibility the app will be shut down?



Escape Collective Podcast - Geek Warning: A wrap on MADE with Rob English - Escape Collective

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I think it pretty unlikely as I expect subscriptions continue to bring in money above basic operating expenses for the site. IMO, most likely will be reduced rates of updates, new features, and content…but I really don’t know their circumstances and strategy.

The sport science page seems to be gone from the website too, and you can no longer buy any time with a coach from the store.



This is NOT good news. Bottom line for me, I’m not going anywhere and I’ll hang on as long as possible but dang!


That was actually removed a year or so ago, forget exactly when, but I know it was at least a year as it was before I moved house :slight_smile:

@aerobrain I thought I had seen it a few months ago when I was looking through the complete store list… oh well!

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Hmmmm unless I’m getting muddled with custom plans/coaching………

Entirely possible! I was just referring to the option to pay for 30 minutes of their time for whatever you fancied.


Yeh and training services only has the X subs now :frowning:

Well, I’m still considering a fifth KOS quest, but if the walls crumble around us I might end up fighting windmills. :broken_heart::mending_heart:


Isn’t that what ALL knighthood quests are?


I really hope that this does not signal a stand still in content and updates, or indeed a winding down of Wahoo X. I think Wahoo X has been, and still is, the platform for cycling/fitness enthusiasts. I have tried some of the other cycling platforms and they don’t come close. I can only speak for myself but I would pay double the price we currently do for a Wahoo X which featured regular meaningful updates in software and content, although I may be alone in this. Without meaningful improvements provided by contributors such as Neal Henderson I fear the platform may die a long slow death.



Of all the platforms I’ve used, SUF / SYSTM / Wahoo X has been the best with the most sound science behind the workouts and the 4DP system, and keeps me coming back for more. I can’t get enough of the Sufferfest workouts, but the continued additions of AWW, OL, and ProRides has given me more great content than I can find anywhere else. I can’t imagine using any other app (and I’ve tried a few)

So, I really hope this isn’t the beginning of the end. My continued hope is that it’s just a transition with the current great app and content staying and only being added to and improved.

That is my continue hope because I don’t plan to leave unless it disappears.


Well, they are still advertising open positions:

It feels that the financial guys have taken hold of the company and slicing everything that doesn’t give immediate results. R&D / Science centres are often the first things to be axed. Not always the best move though. They will probably outsource the creation of a workout and then build the video based on that.

The app with workouts gives them a nice little income stream and won’t be shut down any time soon. We will be kept entertained with monthly challenges, and potential new workouts towards the winter season.

The hardware on the other hand is super hard to sell as there is very little added value of Wahoo kit over other offerings for the premium they ask for it. They also have the issue of existing units not being replaced.


I do not know if it is the financial guys that are in charge. The founder has re-taken control, and trainers and electronics is what Wahoo originally did.


My $0.02, nobody’s been successful as an integrated hardware + software platform; Peloton is still trying to turn itself around and Zwift seems to have stopped all hardware investment except the rebadged Jetblack trainer (pending whatever news comes out from the Wahoo / Zwift settlement).

The next six months (North American + European indoor season) will be telling: what is the state of indoor training post-Covid boom and bust? Can Wahoo grow their size of the business or will there need to be an exit? Short-term the sports science team is less critical to this than marketing and new content. Maybe the consolidation of social media accounts this week is the start of Wahoo having a more comprehensive strategy for WahooX subscriptions (counter-argument: could also be a prelude for shutting down or being spun off/sold).

I’m optimistic but not exactly bullish. I’m taking over the only North American-focused RGT weeknight race series next week; I hope my efforts can grow that small piece of the Wahoo X universe a bit beyond 10-15 riders/week. We’ll see.

And I guess we’ll probably never get that updated Half Monty now :frowning:


@TrapMeSuf Or they just take one of the NoVids and create a story line around it. There are actually a lot of workouts in the library so I suspect the sport science team wasn’t adding a lot of value there.

Looking back at some of the articles announcing the center the focus seemed to be on coaching sponsored athletes and also other pros. Perhaps they are cutting back on sponsorships, didn’t get traction with other teams or maybe it was just a contract renewal thing and stuff just didn’t work out for both parties.

My understanding is that Apex Coaching has continued to exist (the website is still there and they are on Training Peaks) so maybe they will reach out to Apex on a project basis going forward because that is more economical or maybe allows Apex to use their resources elsewhere.