4DP with a non smart trainer

I have a really old turbo and I’m not really in the market to replace it at the moment. I have another thread where I was asking what is best to pick in the app to get my Virtual Watts setup right.

I tried to do Full Frontal on it once, but it wouldn’t give me any figures at the end, as I couldn’t get anywhere near the numbers it was asking me too.

For reference, I’ve found I can usually hit about half of the numbers it asks me to, maybe 3/4 if I’m really pushing. So if the app says 100W, I am somewhere around 50W. I think the most I’ve ever managed to do is about 70W.

Is it possible to get Full Frontal to complete and give you readings with such low numbers?

I’m a bit confused. Where does the 100W come from? Is this some default value that the app has if no Half Monty or Full Frontal exist?

Do you know if your trainer is supported by the app and, in the case of virtual watts, is the app set up correctly for that trainer?

What actually is reported when you attempt an FF? Have you tried Half Monty instead?

I would have thought the app could handle a full range of wattages, from 1W to over 2000W, independent of any subjective “ability”.

I used virtual watts for several years and saw definite improvement, so the Suf ecosystem does work in this way.

Yeah - if you do Half Monty or Full Frontal with no 4DP defined, it gives you a default set of values. For me, FTP is currently set to 146 for example.

Here is a power reading from when I recently did Nine Hammers for example - average of 45 watts, which clearly isn’t right.


What I’m wondering is, can I set the app to ask me to do 50W for example, knowing that’s more realistic for the trainer I’m using?

The best way to get repeatable numbers for yourself will be to complete HM or FF.

You can adjust the numbers yourself and try a few different workouts to get a feel for your adjusted numbers but I’d really recommend letting the app do that for you by testing.

I must say, while recognizing that everyone is different, that these numbers are surprisingly low.

I’m a bit suspicious of your setup but maybe it just is what it is.

Do you know, with your current setup, what your range of watts is from sprinting (NM) to endurance (FTP)? If the range is too narrow I can guess that the app will calculate that your e.g. MAP is too low compared to your FTP, and flag a warning :warning:

Just to reiterate - I don’t think those numbers are representative of my fitness or what I actually put out - when I’m on the road, I can easily maintain 100W over a couple of hours.

It’s definitely something in my setup. But like I said, it’s a very old, non-smart turbo. In the app, you just take the best guess as to what matches it, so it’s not exact. I’m not planning to shell out for a smart turbo any time soon however, so this is the best I’ve got.

As a rule of thumb, the numbers that virtual watts generates are half of what the app is telling me to do, so I’ve been working off that during my workouts. What I’m trying to understand is, can I change the app to halve the values that it presents during workouts?

To answer the earlier question about Half Monty - because I couldn’t get anywhere near what it was asking me to do, the app eventually gave up and said I should just spin out the rest of the test

Short answer: yes, you can change the numbers in the app manually.

I currently use a dumb trainer, with various sensors attached. Although I have power meter pedals now I used virtual watts for a couple of years and it all served me very well.

It is important that the app is set up for your trainer as closely as possible. If your trainer has a resistance setting, this setting should be reflected in the app (if possible), otherwise your reported power will be off (which it sounds like it is).

Even if the app doesn’t have exactly your trainer, it could be worth investigating which trainer is being selected in the app to try to match the power curve you can actually produce.

Hey @Tim, I’d recommend reaching out to the minions on this one. They should be able to help you get setup properly.

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Can you borrow a powermeter off a mate? I’ve forgotten how to do it but I’m fairly sure you can create a correct profile for your trainer. Just ask first. I think it is a step protocol. They added my rollers so I can use alternative bikes without a PM. I only have 1 PM.