A Bold Attack from the Rear: Taking Back Sufferfest

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Hi everyone,

Looking back over the evolution of Sufferfest, there’s been a noticeable pattern that hasn’t always felt like it’s moving in the right direction (and not in the classic GvA sense!). Each time Wahoo introduces a change, whether it’s to the content, branding, or overall direction many long-time Sufferlandrians raise concerns. Yet the changes go ahead regardless. And to be fair, I understand it. Wahoo is a business with many priorities and decisions to manage. From a corporate perspective, the preferences of a small, passionate group might not weigh heavily in the broader strategy.

But over time, many who once proudly paid for Sufferfest are stepping away. Forum discussions show growing discontent, with suggestions to cancel subscriptions due to perceived declines in content quality, merchandise direction, and a general disconnect from the community. Losing loyal customers is rarely good for business, and if this trend continues, it could lead to a lose-lose outcome for both Wahoo and the Sufferlandrian community.

But what if there’s a way to turn this into a win-win?

Here’s a bold idea. What if we created a sports club or non-profit organization, an official legal entity, and explored the possibility of crowdfunding to purchase the Sufferfest IP from Wahoo?

Imagine this:

  • The community, Sufferlandria, owns the rights to the original branding, including the beloved bleeding eyes logo
  • We create and sell our own merch, guided by the community’s vision
  • We control the tone and direction of past, present and future Sufferfest content, keeping the spirit and humor we all love alive
  • We resolve any licensing issues regarding the video content
  • Wahoo can choose to license the content if they want to continue offering it, but the creative direction would be firmly in Sufferlandrian hands

We could even set up a Patreon or membership model, where supporters not only help fund the effort but also get a voice through votes and participation in key decisions. We’ve seen what this community can do. Just look at the funds we’ve raised for DPF. The passion and commitment are already here.

To me, Sufferlandria isn’t just a brand. It’s a group of likeminded, slightly crazy, incredibly inspiring people who push themselves (and each other) every day. Though many of us have never met, it truly feels like a community of friends. That’s something worth preserving, on or off any particular platform.

So, what do you think? If Wahoo were open to selling the Sufferfest IP, would you be interested in joining an effort to bring it back to the community?

Let’s discuss.

Chapeau!

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Would depend entirely on what investment-per-person would be required. Where does long-term investment come from? Is it expected that we all do this as a labour of love, or will “content creators” receive remuneration?

I am not in the licensing business but this feels like it is a lot easier to write than to do.

If this were a business proposal put to some bank or group of investors, I would want to see significant detail behind your bullet points.

I appreciate that this forum is perhaps not the place for that but, while Wahoo may well be agreeable to release the “albatross around their neck”, I’m not convinced by the future of SUF in this proposal, either.

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I like your proposal but I am not sure how practical it is in reality. An alternative and simpler option, is that Wahoo puts the Suffefest behind an additional pay wall, allowing people to opt in or out and providing money to create new Sufferfest content. The problem is we do not know whether this is a resource problem, or whether the Sufferfest as it is, no longer aligns with Wahoo’s corporate values, or both. And this is the problem; so far Wahoo has failed to communicate with the community. Until they do engage I don’t see a way forward.

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I’m somewhere between these first two replies.

I’d like to be more committal and say I’m all in, but…

I’m not a license or copyright lawyer. So the idea sounds great. But the details are where the decisions are made both in terms of who is in and who isn’t, and also likely in determining Wahoo’s response.

You never know if Wahoo will or won’t respond. So I wouldn’t assume continued silence. But I’m sure the request would also be directed to someone higher up and more likely to respond than this forum.

Either way, I’m all ears still at this point.

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It’d be a fun idea but yeah agree it’s a big undertaking. I see the following additional challenges:

  • money: someone already mentioned per person cost but before you even get to that question, there’s a threshold question of is it an amount that can feasibly be crowdfunded at all. If not, you need an investor, lender or some such. We’d need some diligence and benchmarking to suss that out.

  • governance: this would need real governance. Like an entity, a board (which members vote for) which appoints officers, rules for who makes decisions and how, and disputes. It can get complicated and so much more so if you need investor.

  • Operating: we’d have to hire one or more folks to run it (like maintain inbound content licenses from the cycling events, etc)

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Hi there.
Long time lurker, first time poster. I’ve been using SYSTM and reading this forum for about 3 years. This topic has finally convinced me to register.

I like the proposed idea, but would probably suggest a different approach.

Say, we (the Sufferfest community) have successfully crowdfunded 3 million dollars to buy the Sufferfest IP from Wahoo.
What is next?
What platform will the videos run on?
I assume 4DP will not be a part of the deal. Will Sufferfest still be appealing without 4DP? Genuine question, I don’t know, I have not experience the old Sufferfest.
Preserving the old videos, maintaining the licensing, etc, is one thing. Moving the platform forward is a different cattle of fish.
Who will be developing the platform? I assume a hired contractor with no Sufferfest experience will not be able to create a new video, challenging, and engaging, and humorous up to the Sufferfest standards.

I believe the main value of Sufferfest is not in the branding, or IP, but in this community. So the question is - can we, as community, create a Sufferfest-like workout from scratch, good enough to please the old-timers? It doesn’t need to have the Sufferfest logo, or licensed videos, or music. Some generic public domain stuff will do for now. This exercise, essentially free, will show if there is enough interest in moving things forward.

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These are all great questions and concerns, and I really appreciate the thought behind them. Before getting into the operational side, I believe there are a few important challenges we need to consider first:

  1. Building a strong base of support
    This is probably the most critical piece. Without enough people behind the idea, it simply won’t be possible to make it happen. But with enough interest and shared enthusiasm, I truly believe we can find a path forward. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.

  2. Engaging Wahoo about the IP
    Persuading Wahoo to sell the IP won’t be easy, but it could be possible with the right approach, enough interest from the community, and the right connections.

  3. Raising funds
    It’s unlikely that a small group of ten forum members could fund this on their own, unless one of you happens to be very wealthy. However, with broader community support, it could become very doable. Some of the world’s first companies began with crowdfunding. This project aims to create a sustainable model centered around content that brings long-term value to the cycling community. While this likely wouldn’t appeal to venture capital or individuals expecting a 10x return in a short time, it might resonate with a large number of passionate supporters. A platform like Kickstarter could be ideal for reaching more people and raising the necessary funds.

  4. Forming a non-profit organization or sports club
    The structure is open to discussion, but one possible model would include:

Founding members
These would be individuals who invest directly in purchasing the IP. They would share in the risk and any future profits. Founding members would vote on how money is spent (licensing songs and videos as one example), they vote for board members who handle the operational side of things based on one year mandate, and other key decisions. If the organization were ever to be dissolved (pending a two-thirds majority vote), assets would be distributed proportionally to each founder member’s original investment.

Regular members
These would be supporters who contribute through a membership fee, Patreon or app subscriptions. They would have a voice in shaping the content, features, and helping guide the direction of the community.

The original idea involved working in partnership with Wahoo, creating a mutually beneficial relationship. The organization or club would support itself through several possible channels:

  • Membership fees
  • Merchandise
  • Licensing content back to Wahoo, if they are interested
  • Subscription revenue from a standalone app, if Wahoo is not interested
  • EU grants could be explored
  • Donations

If a new app is needed and voted for, it could be developed in-house or outsourced, depending on what the majority of Founding members decide. Compensation for development could be handled through profit sharing or equity. As for 4DP, while I don’t have a clear answer yet, ramp tests themselves are not proprietary. It may be possible to collaborate with or hire Sir Neal again to develop a new performance test tailored for this platform.

Apple and Android would be the platforms. There is also an opportunity to create an Apple TV app, something that has long been promised but never delivered. I would love to contribute by designing the interface.

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As I said above, I do really like your idea. You clearly have put a lot of thought into it. In order to assess its viability it would be helpful to know how many individual users per month are completing Sufferfest workouts and how often. While it is inconceivable to me why any person would not want to suffer in this way, it is possible that Wahoo’s motivation for making the changes they have, is because of declining use. It would therefore be useful to know if this is the case or not. I don’t suppose Wahoo will share this commercially sensitive information.

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Indeed

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Just for myself, I have to say if it wouldn’t run on my PC, I wouldn’t subscribe. I’m not about to run my cycling app on my phone (android.) I don’t know how many others do or don’t. I just know the tiny format won’t happen for me. Using a trackball mouse makes everything easy for me. I can’t relate to doing this on a phone or tablet.

Now for the Bold Attack from the Rear:
As others stated, I would love to say I’m all for the idea, and I appreciate the considered and detailed plan ideas from Sir Luka! I’m not against it or dismissing it at all.

I think there are a LOT of complicated details in wresting content away from Wahoo and then having to create a whole new platform for it.
If it can happen and does happen, I’d be really happy that it did!

My own sense of what has potential is more along the line of connecting to the right person(s) in the right positions at Wahoo to participate in some kind of open dialogue to achieve the goal of not only retaining Sufferfest content in as close to original form as possible AND building on that tradition, even if additional content is also added in other directions.

I realize that this seems wholly unlikely given what we have seen the past couple/few years with Sufferfest remasters, etc., but I cannot help but wonder if this is something that could be reversed in a sufficiently right direction if a true dialogue could be achieved with persons that have genuine decision-making authority and a real understanding of what is behind the current state of decline.
There are various possible reasons involved here, but we don’t really know which reasons are driving the train most. Finances? Philosophy? Long-term plans? Bigger problems elsewhere in Wahoo demanding more attention?

SOME at Wahoo either know or have access to this information, and they, if willing to engage with this forum or representatives from this forum, might better understand our (varied) perspectives, and might actually be able to share these perspectives where it actually matters. The end result might accomplish a great deal more and with far less investment than reinventing the wheel, so to speak, (i.e. creating a new platform for content, should a transfer approach succeed.)

I’m not knowledgeable about enough of the history of persons responsible for the Sufferfest tradition and the development of the larger body of workouts that came from that tradition. While there are names of persons no longer with Wahoo that I recognize and appreciate, I can only assume that the return of these people is not likely. This is certainly unfortunate, and the loss of those persons may alone be the major reason for the change in quality and appeal of the more recently remastered videos from Sufferfest. After all, some of the more recent departures are names I’ve heard credited as having produced or contributed workouts/videos that were indeed excellent in the Sufferfest tradition.

I admit it’s quite possible that there is no fruitful avenue of communication to Wahoo decision-makers. Maybe the persons whose ears we wish we could reach are already reading ALL our comments but just not responding, for WHATEVER reasons.
Maybe there’s already a stamped-in-stone direction that includes the end of Sufferfest, or possibly the end of SYSTM in its entirety. (I HOPE NOT!)

But WHAT IF THERE IS an avenue of communication that we haven’t found yet??
And MAYBE THERE ISN’T any real plan, or maybe one ISN’T STAMPED IN STONE YET!

As much as I’d love to see A BOLD ATTACK SUCCEED…

I WOULD ALSO LOVE TO SEE A GREAT APP REDISCOVER ITS ROOTS!!
(Disclaimer: I realize I’m an old dreamer at heart.)

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