It’s undeniable: SUFF videos are being phased out and replaced with more generic content, and that shift has accelerated in the past few weeks.
While the official reason given has been “licensing issues,” that feels like only part of the story. My take? This is part of a broader strategic pivot to make the platform more broadly appealing — like dialing down the spice in a dish to please a wider audience. The risk is that in trying to attract new users, the platform may end up alienating its most loyal ones without gaining much in return.
We’ve vented about this here, but the reality is that forum posts don’t move the needle for the execs making these decisions. What does? KPIs — and the big one for a subscription-based business is monthly recurring revenue (MRR). That’s simply the number of subscribers multiplied by the average monthly fee.
So What Can We Actually Do?
Cancel your subscription. Leave feedback. That’s it.
I’m not saying abandon the platform. You can re-subscribe when you need to. Let your subscription lapse, then resubscribe when it makes sense — and cancel again right after. Yes, it’s a hassle, especially if you’re on a monthly plan.
But this is the one action that has a real chance of being noticed by the people in charge. If enough of us disrupt the MRR, even slightly, it sends a signal that’s far louder than any forum thread.
It might not work. But it’s likely the best — maybe only — chance we have to preserve what made the platform special.
How?
Go to https://accounts.wahooligan.com/. Follow the steps on cancelling the subscription. Leave feedback in the form at the bottom.
I suspect you are right, but I’m not quite ready to do that yet, although it may not be far off. In the meantime I would encourage all Sufferlandrians to raise a support ticket with Wahoo in order to express their concerns regarding the content changes. I did this yesterday and received a very appreciative response.
I just sent in a support request. In my experience, when things go wrong it’s not usually intentional. 99% of the time it’s ignorance and sloth that are responsible for poor outcomes. Wahoo needs to hear from their customer base.
I think this is being too generous. Yes replies are a mix of “oh, we didn’t meant to make the experience worse and are striving to blah blah..” and “we value your input and we will see what we can do.” But that’s all standard CS training. After pushing a little, you may get vague statements about possibilities for future reworked videos, but you will not get any budging on these “licensing” (money, presumably) issues. CS is not management. Management has made clear deliberate decisions, and they believe it helps their bottom line. Of course enough community perception could change that calculation, but that’s about social effects on customer sentiment, which affects sales, not about management “awareness.” This is no mistake.
I don’t think you could make a worse remaster than this latest one, though I’m sure they will. It’s certainly no SUF vid and is 1000% NOT repeatable. Adding it to my growing list of things I’d rather do as a NO-vid. I mean, you’re Wahoo-nderful?! Really?!
I’m disappointed it’s come to this, but subscription cancelled today with a comment that the removal of Sufferfest content is the main reason. Also raised a support ticket with same comments.
Made it clear that it’s not about new footage and licensing, it’s about the removal of what the SUF brand stood for.
By turning off auto subscribe you are still able to manually renew if you wish, so you are not committing to leaving, but turning off auto subscription allows you to send the feedback and in itself sends a message. That’s what I have done. Subscription is up in August, and decision on whether or not I will resubscribe is yet to be made, but have signal my discontent and let them know they can’t take my subscription for granted.
Should it be a telling sign that the Wahoo online account has removed itself from the Sufferlandria Facebook page, so they’re not actively (as a company at least) even trying to engage the Sufferfest community.
Also, weren’t we always told that Sufferfest would remain as it’s own channel?
And, given this and that in data storage terms the videos aren’t huge, why couldn’t we simply have a SUF version and non-SUF of the same content if needs be, or could the Sufferfest content/concept be sold now?
I once wrote here that i‘ll leave when my favourites get desuffed. That‘s what I did. I‘m already missing sufferlandria, but it is drifting into the mist anyway.
I’ve just turned off auto-renew, though my renewal isn’t due until November.
Writing the note for the cancellation comments did make me search back through my e-mails to find my first SUF video purchase. A triple pack of Downward Spiral, Long Scream and Angels in January 2014. That was 40 USD well spent.
I did nearly use the term “fluffy” to describe the remastered videos in my cancel note but felt that was incorrect and dishonoured the only true Fluffy in SUF.
I think we’re past raising support tickets. This is not a bug. This is a conscious decision on what the platform’s future is. By unsubscribing I signal my decision on not supporting it. It doesn’t mean I’m leaving. I have until the end of the year to change my mind. But at it looks.. I’ll use this time to do the remaining SUFF workouts once or twice or 3 times (Blender) an enjoy every moment of it.
The thing for me is that I genuinely don’t understand the value in breaking the old SUF videos.
There is plenty of good new content, there are plenty of other interval workouts in the rest of the library and it’s “old” science too.
Keep it in it’s separate “Sufferlandria” library and make your new content.
Are we really thinking someone who subscribes and rides Wahoo and On Location content might think “Hmm, I wonder what else there is”, click a Sufferfest video and the experience would be so horrifying they’d cancel their subscription over it? No chance.
So, it’s just a cheaper way to increase the sanitised scale of the library, using older sports science and destroying an established community in the process.
As I say, the fact the Wahoo social team saw fit to leave the Sufferlandria Facebook group feels like a worrying sign.
Back in February I switched from annual billing to monthly billing as I felt that I may drop SYSTM as a training app this year (been an annual subscriber since 2018). The remastering due to ‘licensing changes’ may be what pushes me to drop SYSTM.
A couple of years ago DC Rainmaker did an interview with Chip. In it Chip was asked about the watch that Wahoo has (had?) and if it would be updated. Chip’s response was that it wasn’t financially viable to compete against Garmin, Apple and the other companies that made fitness watches. The Wahoo product wasn’t unique enough to capture market share.
I think Wahoo is ‘missing the boat’ so to speak with market share in SYSTM. There is a core group of diehard users who preached the ‘uniqueness’ of Sufferfest. In this day of TR having no-vid workouts that can be pushed to Zwift, Zwift having their own workouts and several other training programs that also have AI coaching, SYSTM falls short. What is unique is the Sufferfest videos and their story line. Riding one of them is like riding a favorite training route…familiar.
The remastered videos (granted I’ve only done Who Dares and Primers) lack the storyline and artistic flair that Sir David and Sir Francois brought to the original videos. I would think that Wahoo would consider bringing one or both of them back on contract (if they would agree…) to spearhead the remastering and keep the feel of Sufferfest. Maybe even give them the artistic license to create a couple of new videos each year from the ‘no video’ library. That would keep the core group of subscribers happier (and still subscribers) and possibly bring in some new ones.
I think that Wahoo needs to take into account when deciding the future of Sufferfest, and Systm in general, that subscribers to the platform are cycling enthusiasts. We buy bike computers, bike power pedals, smart trainers etc. and the last thing Wahoo wants to do is create animosity towards the brand.
Last night, I signed up to Trainerroad. From my limited experience so far (I’ve got set up and done one workout), if Wahoo are aiming to turn SUF into an approximation of this then they have a lot of work to do.
A few observations:
When you link Strava to TR, it imports and analyses your workout history then tells you what it thinks about you. It pegged me as a climber and that is exactly how I think of myself, so that was an encouraging start.
Plan creation (I have a big event in just over 7 weeks) is streets ahead of Systm. More flexible and more customisable.
The calendar has a lot more functionality than Systm’s, including yellow and red warnings on days where you are in danger of overtraining.
The workout player can be run in split screen in iOs! This is massive for me, given that every workout is a no vid and I use my iPad as my training interface. That said, the one workout I’ve done provided lots of information and advice via on-screen text, so there was actually enough going on to keep me occupied for an hour. My only minor gripe was that there isn’t an option to display target cadence as far as I can tell and the workout did require varying cadence, so there were a couple of times when I wasn’t sure how I should be riding.
The potential game-changing differentiator between the two platforms though is the implementation of AI in TR. I will test this for the first time tomorrow when I complete my first off-plan ride. I’m optimistic and feel that Wahoo have massively missed the boat on this (Humango was useless when I tried it after the linkup).
Thanks for this and please keep the insights into Trainer Road coming. I have started to look for alternatives to Systm when my sub expires in November, if the current policy of de-suff’ing the videos continues. Trainer Road is at the top of my list of possible alternatives.
The animosity is already starting to happen for me. Especially considering that 5 out of 9 things I’ve bought from them had to be warrantied (to be fair customer service with them is great most of the time but it shouldn’t be needed), I’m still waiting on replacement power meter pedals that have been out of stock since December (don’t get me started), and now all this.
Blender) an enjoy every moment of it.