There’s been quite a bit of conversation lately about the remastering of some beloved Sufferfest videos. Even the laser goats had something to say, staging a roadside protest during the Giro.
We would like to provide some background related to our recent remastering project. In response to an unexpected end to a licensing agreement, we have had to quickly update some of our videos. The alternative would have been to remove the videos from our library entirely, turning the workouts into Novids. We wanted to avoid the Novid option, so we made the decision to move forward with the quick remastering to meet the requirements of the licensing agreements.
As Sufferlandrians, you appreciate the creativity, spirit, and passion that went into the original videos - and so do we! Unfortunately, in some cases, the available video footage has not allowed us to preserve the original storylines. We appreciate and understand the “SUF” essence has been lost from the remastered storylines, and we would love your input and suggestions to bring some SUF back into them. Please use this survey to provide your feedback on the remastered videos.
Thank you for the explanation. It is a relief to myself, and probably many other Sufferlandrians, that the remastering of some of the Sufferfest videos was purely for technical licensing issues, and not because Wahoo wanted to change the format of these videos. I think that the watered down content in Rollercoaster may well have fueled this speculation. If I had received these reassurances some weeks ago I would not have cancelled my Systm subscription. In particular knowing that Wahoo now intends to re-Suff the remastered videos is likely to make me manually resubsrcibe when the time comes.
Personally, I would like to see the existing workouts preserved as they are. I would also like to see the storyline preserved as close to the original as possible. This was accomplished a year or two ago very successfully when Recharger was remastered with new footage. The remastered version in my opinion is just as good as the original.
Probably others will not agree with this, but I would prefer that the remastered workouts had been presented as no vids, with an explanation that this is temporary while they are being remastered. Certainly, with their current video content I will continue to do them as no vids in TPV.
On a final note, can you reassure us that no other classic Sufferfest videos are due for remastering any time soon?
I agree with what Sir John (@Kayak) said. Please try to keep the original storyline and original SUF humor as close as possible to the originals, and find new cycling footage that fits the storyline. We understand if small tweaks are needed, but please try to keep the tweaks within the SUF spirit.
100% agree. In a video like power station if I’m grinding away don’t have the video of racers on flat roads or descending. That is just sloppy and I am paying good money to do these workouts. For me, the video, storyline, and music are what keeps me engaged. Otherwise, I might as well stare at blue blocks on TR, which would bore me to tears.
@Rupert by which I mean Sir Rupert, thank you for this clear explanation. I second all the other replies and don’t have anything much worthwhile to add, except I think this topic ought to be linked to as the solution for at least one thread, possibly two that I’ve seen recently.
And I love the laser goat clip. Timely indeed.
I am sorry that you Rupert may be stuck between a rock and a hard place at times, as I’m sure you have limits placed on what you can say and when.
This is so good to hear, glad to know we have been heard. I think everything had be said, but key things are making sure footage matches the effort and storyline and keep the Sufferfest humour and references. Done well a refresh to the videos can be a good thing. I cancelled the auto renewal of my subscription but in light of this, for now, I’ll be going nowhere.
A reminder for everyone replying in this thread - actually go to the “Suggestion Box” link provided by @Rupert in his original post and leave your respective comments there.
If you want to make changes and have an effect on current and future SUF, do it properly and formally.
Given the nature of the form, you may need to do it multiple times, for as many remastered workouts as you see fit.
However, I see now that the linked form is more centred on Storylines and their sync to the actual footage which, as important as it is, is only half the issue.
May I suggest you create another form related to motivational text for workouts?
If you consider how bad Rollercoaster is, in relation to the Sufferfest trademark style, despite not being impacted by this « out of nowhere » licensing issue, then all of the above seems hard to believe as purely the reason for the departure of the remasters from the SUF ethos.
Also: asking your (paying) customers to do your job (come up with ideas and storyline) is an « interesting » concept… This is a for-profit company. Why can’t it look to hire someone who can actually do the job of perpetuating what the Sufferfest brand stands for and reenergize it? Not to mention how impossible this could actually be to manage all the feedback and suggestions. It might be OK to tame the discontent but it’s highly unrealistic that this would lead anywhere in the long run. Plus, again, it’s not how it should work… Worth remembering that famous saying that «a camel is a horse designed by committee».
The standard of what SUF is about is clear and well established. This is mainly what the grumbling has been about: Keep it SUF. Just stick to that, put some effort in the editing and storytelling and save us from the “Wahoonderful” and other “Let’s Rally” captions…
The outreach is appreciated. My first feedback is to not confine us on how to provide feedback. Surveys are annoying. If someone cares, they can read the replies here.
Second, I don’t understand how it’s possible to have an unexpected end to the licensing terms. I guess one factor I could see is a court order deciding the original deal infringed on someone’s rights, but short of that… I don’t know, it’s not my area of expertise, but it feels strange that a company would build its biggest creative IP without securing terms for its future.
The first thing I would suggest is negotiating of course, and even considering add-(back)on pricing. But assuming that’s truly not feasible… as others have said, do the new stuff right. Maybe contract back one of the original creators if possible.
Finally, none of this appears to explain the Local Hero situation. For that, while I’d love the original video, including the cross racing, yes, having at least some remaster of it, preferably with the same music, would really be nice.
Ultimately my two biggest things are please fix Power Station, and please bring back Local Hero, in some video form, and my next biggest suggestion is to remove the sexualized child content in Rollercoaster. This mismatch really seals the impression that this recent work (remastered or not) is slapped together without the same level of inspired talent involved.
I did Cadence builds and Primers. I don’t remember the old ones. I can say these weren’t them. It makes something feel missing. I can’t say there was anything wrong though. They are not workouts that requires a ton of inspiration anyway.
I was going to write exactly this after first overlooking that you already had. It’s almost like we should do the work now. This is also my issue with their detailed video by video survey request instead of just listening to why people aren’t happy and making a plan to get the right people fixing it.
Thanks for the responses so far, we’re seeing some great feedback in the form already.
Apologies if we have offended by asking you to ‘do the work for us’. Sir David created an incredible community with the Sufferfest and we want to keep this alive - who knows the nation better than it’s own citizens and their ideas and suggestions of storylines & text in the videos to keep them motivated.
Other updates:
We’ve added Rollercoaster to the list of workouts to provide suggestions for
By storyline, we are referring to all on-screen text in the videos so this includes all motivational text
We will remaster Local Hero so we can bring it back for everyone to ride.
A wise old laser goat once said ‘you can never leave’ - so we want to make it worth your while to stay.
The licensing limitation only applies to the video, right? Making it work is easy.
Roll back all changes to the text, and find new races in which something similar happened (You have a huge amount of race videos you can use, right?). Then, grab the necessary clips, edit text as necessary to match colors, teams, riders, scenery, etc., and keep the essence while showing something comparable.
Who Dares? A race in which someone attacked repeatedly, a stage race in which someone won several stages, or a championship in which an athlete won several races. Same thing for all others.
@Rupert
Awesome. Time will tell, but it’s really great to hear something other than silence here. I didn’t get a chance to enjoy the pain of the Hunted much, but others of course maybe miss that (and it was on my list to get around to, but I just don’t know). I’m sure anything brought back from the caves of Mt Sufferlandria would be appreciated by someone.
Anyway, some kind of revival of Local Hero sounds amazing, and that’s great to hear!
I’ve expressed this before, but you have to be careful using viewing data to asses a video’s importance to customers. Something like Local Hero is probably not an activity anyone would be doing at 100% every week, or even every month. That doesn’t mean it isn’t a very valued part of what they’re paying for. The killer twice a year sort of workouts are gold, and their design details more critical. Thin Air was previously that way. Local Hero and Blender (full) also meet that.
I have yet to ride one of the remastered videos. I did ride rollercoaster, and have provided feedback on that elsewhere.
I can say that we would likely have complained about the remastered videos no matter what was done to them. But, the biggest issue isn’t even the changes to the videos. It’s the lack of a clear explanation about why they were changed. Lack of clarity fuels speculation, and then discontent and distrust.
I love the ability of SUF to convince me to dig deep, and all of the bravado, daring, taunting that pushed me to my limits. Team scream is great, the intern being thrown into the deep end. Islaggiatt with big m, glow worm, billboard, etc, love it
The only thing that really disturbs me is where the videos would refer to holy water or treat GvA like a god. That’s sacrilegious and offensive to me, being a devout Christian, elder and lay preacher. As long as you are remastering videos, sweat, tears of the vanquished, all fine. But holy water, oh my GvA, is too much.
Timely indeed.