ANNOUNCING: The New Sufferlandrian Flag & Coat of Arms

[Chrispenfold]

Hi All,
There has been a lot of discussion on the new livery over the past few days…so I’ll put my two-penneth in…

For ref: I’ve been a citizen of Sufferlandria for around 2 years now and a Knight for almost a year.

New Flag: I must admit that I didn’t realise that there were ‘bleeding eyes’ on the existing flag for the first few months…and am not deeply wedded to those. Although I was aware that the black/white/red horizontal stripes were very similar to many middle eastern country (Pan Arab) flags, I hadn’t realised the link with early Nazi branding - so I can understand the wish/need for change there…but luckily I have an existing Sufferfest flag and won’t be getting rid of it.

I’m not sure about Laser Goats - I have never really understood their relevance in Sufferlandrian heritage…(just a ‘fun’ thing?)…but they may grow on me.
…and on a black flag background (no writing?)…not sure about that until I see it…but could resemble an ISIS flag if you are not careful and maybe a red background would be better?..but I can see that the red laser beams would be more difficult to see…or how about a yellow goat on red/white/black quadrants…as per the new Coat of Arms?

New COA: I agree that it is ‘cleaner’ than the previous version and I don’t mind it…and will probably get used to it, but, as a KoS, do feel that something has been lost. Couldn’t we have 2 versions…:

1. Basic version: Simple ‘print-friendly’ version yellow goat on quadrant as seen (without writing)
2. Kos version: same (yellow goat & black/white/red quadrants) but with writing (Pain, Misery, Agony and Honour, Glory, Victory + IWBMATTKYT ? I sweat and rode my heart out to get my Knighthood…and would like the world to know that as I overtake them!

New Kit: It does not surprise me that the new kit mirrors the Wahoo kit, but in red/black/white instead of blue/blue/black. It makes perfect sense from a branding POV…same with the new KOS kit.
…I’ve been waiting for the KOS jerseys for 10 months, ever since gaining my Knighthood, last March…I think that the new black KOS jersey is OK (although probably not as distinctive as the existing one)…and I can live with the laser goats…but it would be even better if it actually bore the word KNIGHT and other ‘knight-like’ wording on it somewhere (Pain, Misery, Agony and Honour, Glory, Victory + IWBMATTKYT)…otherwise no one (except a Sufferlandrian) will really know what a KOS (on its own) stands for - will they?..except maybe advertising a Greek island?

…Having said that - I have ordered a new shiny Cuore black KOS jersey because I’m fed-up with waiting…and I WILL WEAR IT WITH PRIDE.

However, I’m assuming that the new Cuore batch-ordering model that you are now using will allow you to update/improve the designs on an on-going and iterative manner (a new design for every order )…

So maybe you could incorporate some of these ideas into the 2nd print run???

All in all, I know that it must have been very difficult for you @David.McQuillen.KoS - don’t envy you…but a very good first stab…keep up the good work…and suffer with a smile

I love the Sufferfest and will never leave! Keep the fun and humour!

[Chrispenfold]

I think that this quadrant design (but obviously a rectangular shape rather than a shield) would work better than a black-only (ISIS-looking) background

[ScottyCycles62]

This looks great but does need the Pain, Misery, Agony and Honour, Glory, Victory + IWBMATTKYT

[giorgitd]

Blockquote
Agree about avoiding the all black background, but these are still the same old ‘troublesome’ colors, even if arranged in a different geometry.

[Chrispenfold]

Maybe something along these lines…but possibly with bolder, more modern fonts @giorgitd and @ScottyCycles62

[ScottyCycles62]

That works for me.

[GJStache53]

GVA Evil Laugh!!

[emacdoug]

@Chrispenfold

I think that this quadrant design (but obviously a rectangular shape rather than a shield) would work better than a black-only (ISIS-looking) background

@Chrispenfold

This is why I love this community and this forum. It’s not a huge complaint-fest. These are great recommendations. And also, where else do you get immediate great feedback right from the the CSO? Major props to Sir @David.McQuillen.KoS. And I would hope and not be surprised to see some of these suggestions (but maybe not exactly) show up in a future re-working. Because that’s the awesome kind of place that is The Sufferfest.

[Puckett526]

I agree completely!

[AlexEllermann]

Here are some thoughts from a new guy.

First, a little background. I imagine I’m not a particularly unusual new Sufferlandrian. I’m a reasonably fit person (RHR 54 bpm) in his early fifties whose knees had finally had enough of running. I started logging heavy miles over the pandemic for two reasons: more free time (thanks to working from home), and watching my wife pass relatively unscathed through a life-threatening health scare (thanks to her lifetime of smart diet and exercise choices). By the time winter came around, I was ready for an indoor trainer. My new Kickr Bike came with a 2-month free trial, so here I am. I’ve tried BKool and RGT, and I’ll try the free trials of the other services after ToS. As of today, I’m willing to say the chances of my staying with The Sufferfest are very high. More on that in a minute.

Any service is, in a sense, a trap - like a tar pit. This isn’t a bad thing; it’s just a way of saying that it needs to lure people in (the shimmer), then keep them once it’s got them (the tar). The branding, advertising, Strava images, and free trials are The Sufferfest’s shimmer and the content is the tar. If the branding is putting people off due to Nazi associations, Couchlandrian inertia, or what have you, then it has to change. Its whole function is to get the maximum number of people to the tar, without making them feel like they’ve been cheated once they get there.

Right now, I’m about ankle-deep in the tar. It’s warm, it feels good, it’s pretty sticky, but I can still grab a tree branch and pull myself out. The laser goat speaks to me because it’s a little funny, a little weird, and enough of an inside joke that it’ll make me feel like part of an exclusive “in-group” when I encounter it in the wild.

So, hey, that works. The really important part, I think, is what’ll keep me in the tar - what will motivate me to wade in deeply enough that I’ll weave The Sufferfest into the long-term tapestry of my life and forget about the subscription fee, just as I forget about the fees for Netflix, Audible, or any other “nice to have.” So far, I’m getting that. The workouts are challenging, entertaining, and making me a measurably stronger cyclist. The yoga program is the first I’ve tried that doesn’t have me wondering, “What the hell is she talking about now?” The mental toughness program is leaps and bounds better than comparable programs found on various wellness apps. And the whole “IWBMATTKYT” thing triggers my competitive nature. In short, The Sufferfest is a no-bull$#^! holistic training program packaged like a night out at a Warren Miller movie.

As long as the service retains those core elements, it could change its logo to a donut. It’ll still retain those already stuck in the tar. And the tar is good. So good. So good for you. Just one more step …

[Aside: you guys change all your logos here on the site to donuts for April Fools’ Day, right? Right?]

[Juanale81]

My $0.02:

I like the old COA and flag better. I kinda like being part of a reduced group of people that are willing to suffer a bit more than the rest. Made me feel a bit like a badass. But if this needs to change in order to include more people, that’s ok. If this is what needs to happen for the Sufferfest to continue being a viable business, so be it. This is not a not-for-profit organization. I’d rather have the platform evolve than disappear.

Changes always happen, and we adapt pretty quickly, even without noticing it. It won’t be long before we all see all the new symbols as normal.

Having said that, I believe the most important thing are the workouts, the plans and the science behind them: that’s what makes us be fitter and stronger on and off the bike, which is why I’m here in the first place. As long as the videos are available and the new ones are not too different, I’ll be here.

Hope everyone has a good weekend!

[ErickT]

Started my 3rd year of SUF recently. I applaud the changes and the reasons why… I have no attachment to the old flag or the bleeding eyes or the shield.

Edit

For me what is more important is the quality of the workouts, the plans, the challenges and best of all, the community.

Logos and icons come, change, and go. Spirit does not.

[botski]

I am curious about the legality of getting a flag printed with the old logo. I do not want to step on any toes or piss off anyone at wahoo or the Sufferfest. I made a vector drawing of the logo when taking an Adobe illustrator class recently. If I give this file to someone who will print a flag, is this legal? I will not accept a cent from anyone.

[Sir_Brian_M]

@Sir

So we went from Pain being bread in French, to SUF being Dull in Dutch.

That’s a good point! Then again I like bread, not sure I’d like being dull.

Bread, Misery, Agony. That works for me quite well.

[andrewmei]

Some of us have had goats for a while

[ridethecliche]

I completely agree with what you’re saying here, but there’s no reason that the marketing can’t diverge based on the intended plan.

I.e. when you sign up for the service or even for a trial, you should be able to pick a few goals for fitness and racing etc. Once that’s done, the workouts that are displayed and the plans available should change. Should someone want to come in and sign up for a more advanced plan, well then they can be let right into the sufferfest of old. If you’re just riding recreationally for general fitness, well, then it can take a slightly different approach to plan building and workouts displayed.

So there’s a way to appeal to more fitness/rec oriented riders without the expense of losing some of the ethos.

In any event, I’m going to suspend disbelief till I see what they actually do.

[ridethecliche]

I mean… they can’t really stop you from printing it and putting it up on your wall… Start distributing it and then there are other issues involved.

[sir_jmac]

Oldish Knight here, my first reaction was meh, not really digging the lazer part of the goat and it seemed off brand from what I bought into years ago. This was last night. This morning I’m coming around to the lazer goat image. The coat of arms is harder for me to see go. The simple version with the symbols is near perfect to capture what TSF was all about when I joined. I love the story behind it and the fact that you might have to do some research to understand the symbolism. Once you know it is a story to tell others.

I get it thou, change is hard and most people do not like it (i’m one of those people). But we have to remember that the people that are making these changes are the same people that created what we loved in the first place. Because of that I’m happy to see what happens and give them full support.

[nicktick]

@Alistair_Brown

I do wonder if it would be worth making an introductory video for new users to explain how the app works, how the 4DP and training plans work, but also the humour and culture being Sufferlandria,

As a new user myself, I can heartily commend the introductory video that’s there already. When I bought my trainer, I tried the free trial periods of Zwift, and Rouvy, and RGT, before settling on SUF due to the care put into that intro. You immediately get a sense that here’s a company that is grateful you’re giving it a chance, and is putting its best foot forward to keep you. Nobody else is doing anything even vaguely similar. And while it’s not explicit, the humour comes through clearly the initial videos that are in the two week trial period plan. I’ve had an absolute blast in Sufferlandria, whereas the only thing that was keeping me in Zwift was ‘ooh, I’ve gone up to level 4, now lets aim for level 5’…

[Glen.Coutts]

Welcome to Sufferlandria @nicktick, you can never leave I’ve been around for a few years, immigrated at the end of 2015 and did my first Tour in 2016. One thing is certain and that is that SUF will always be moving forward. It’s one of many many things I absolutely LOVE about this place.