From The Coaches: Picking your Plan

Yes, I adhere to the intensities and durations prescribed in my plan during recovery weeks. However, I continue to clock HR zone 2 endurance 140 mile every weekend, even during recovery weeks.

Yes I completed several 2 advanced and 1 intermediate road plans for 2020 and achieved 15% increase in FTP through FF. For all my previous plans in 2020, I was riding 140 miles every weekend. My goal is to reach FTP 250 - 280.

Yes, i suspect I am overreaching due to the increase in durations over the weekend. I will tone it down to perhaps HR zone 1 ride during recovery weeks. i also reckon i did not have sufficient rest the week leading to latest 4DP results. Half Monty at 6th week was 241 FTP but there was no way I could hit 241 during the 4DP.

I completed week 1 of a new 12-week road plan (all purpose). I took a week of rest after the latest 4DP before embarking a new plan. I shall be more vigilant about the recovery weeks. Will update soon, hopefully about my progress.

1 Like

I wantend to follow the all purpose road plan, but there is no option to choose indoor and outdoor with strength.
You can add the strength as second plan I guess, but then the workouts donā€™t seem to be adjusted to the strength addition.

How to best plan this?

Thanks

ā€œKnowledge of your weakness is Powerā€.

Unfortunately my weakness is sticking to a training plan :upside_down_face: and usually the plan isnā€™t the problem (as in: it being to hard or something).

Breaking the couchlandrian cycle has been a challenge over the past year.

Dear coaches,

Help !

During the March lockdown, I did the All-in plan, followed by the all purpose road riding plan (+yoga+strength) for sustained weakness.
Really enjoyed it and saw good improvements, mostly in ā€œfeelā€ but also in numbers.

But after that, I have been driftingā€¦ Did the US crit plan, and it was fun and all, I saw a good MAP improve but FTP dropped a bit.
Was able to get some outdoor riding in September/October which was fun but completely unstructured.

The new transition plans were released, so I did the transition up to get back to structured training plans. It was a bit less training time that I was doing, but nice to catch up on life, etc.
The plan ended with a 4DP and my numbers were again lowerā€¦ FTP dropped another bit :confused:

It has always been low by comparison (my 4DP graph says all the other numbers are exceptional, which to me says my FTP is very poor).

So, now I want to REALLY focus on sustained power. What would be the best plan to achieve that ?
All purpose road, that will adjust to my weakness, the volcano climbing plan, time-trialling plans ?

Thanks in advance!

I finished the Ramp-up plan last week and really happy with steps I made both in Half Monthy and Full 4DP. Giving myself a little break this week: doing long walks outside at decent pace and at least one outdoor ride or hour long ride indoor tomorrow.
I am looking to start new plan next week but find that one I consider: Full Century overlaps with ToS 2021 which I would like to ride as well. I usually go Nuclear mode on ToS.

Any suggestions on how to fit ToS in a plan or find a plan that will finish in time? Really do well if I have a structured plan to commit to - since I live close to the Couchlandria border it is easy to end-up at wrong side of the border I havenā€™t got some structure.

Realistically, I can do 4 to 5 hours of training in a week.

1 Like

Maybe do the TOS prep plan?

Maybe Try the ftp training block?

1 Like

That seems like the obvious thing to do !!!
Donā€™t know why I didnā€™t think of that, but it seems to be exactly what I want (if it is what I need, we will find out in a couple of weeks) :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Thanks!

1 Like

Thanks for the hints and tips and for welcoming me in.
As a new joiner, Iā€™m looking at the training plans, and am at the point of spinning a coin as to beginner or intermediate for the Ironman plan.
I can see you state;

  • Novice and Intermediate plans are written as 2 weeks on and 1 week of recovery
  • Advanced plans are written as 3 weeks on and 1 week of recovery
    and Iā€™m quite happy to carry out the 3on1off plan, but not sure your or my perception of intermediate or beginner? Iā€™ve been generally amateur competing in tri for 8/9 years and finished 5 IMs. coming out of a year of injury I need to push myself to get back to the level I needā€¦ any suggestions on understanding the levels of each would be out welcome.
    Thanks
    GB
4 Likes

How many hours per week have you been training?
Have you already completed training plans previously?
Whatā€™s your experience with interval training?

I suggest that you consider these elements before picking a training plan. Also, keep in mind that novice plans can be quite taxing even for more experienced riders if youā€™re not familiar with HIIT.
It also depends on how much free time you have at your disposition.

I hope that helps. :upside_down_face:

Thanks for your help Nic.
Yes Iā€™m familiar with some HIIT work and currently manage 8/9 hours mixed training a week.
Iā€™ll spin off with the 4 week mixed discipline plan then will take a call on either beginner or intermediate 16week IM plan.
Thanks again
Gary

Iā€™m following your interaction with Coach Simon, and asking for a bit of clarification here. When you mention doing Intermediate Level 5 three times and four times Intermediate Level 6, are you doing one strength workout per day or doubling up on those?

In any event, since it seems youā€™re not accomplishing your goals with your current training regimen, youā€™ll need to adjust something. As far as why numbers are no longer increasing, there are a number of possibilities, with the first one seeming to me as being the most probable, based upon the conversation so far:

  1. Youā€™ve reached a saturation point, where you are on the verge of overtraining, if not beyond it
  2. You might need to train more effectively, using an alternate plan or customized one
  3. You are nearing your peak anatomical fitness levels, where improvements become harder to attain

The good news is that you can test these in order as well:

  1. Try doing the FF prep plan a second time and retesting at the end of the week. If your numbers improve, that would suggest overtraining. If so, perhaps do an additional recovery week and adjust your training by lowering volume (2 weeks on, 1 week recovery) or intensity (not going crazy on the strength workouts)
  2. Try picking a four week training plan to vary your routine, picking something thatā€™s more specialized for the type of riding you do.
  3. If you donā€™t see any results from the above, you may be nearing your current attainable fitness levels. We would not expect Peter Sagan to suddenly become a climber. Heā€™s not wired that way. Also, heā€™s not likely to be able to sprint at 60 miles an hour on the flat. We cannot endlessly improve beyond the constraints of our physiology. But when this is the case, marginal improvements can still be made. Keep training, and donā€™t fret the numbers. Just donā€™t overdo it, because the body can only absorb so much effort, after which it refuses to cooperate, and you end up stuck in point 1 above.

Hope this helps, and consider getting a coaching consult (I am not a coach) as they can help you figure out how to get unstuck.

3 Likes

It is also important to understand your training goals.

Depending on what you want to accomplish (racing, week-end rides with friends, century, mountain climbing) you may only need to improve in certain areas. Often training one area can impact your ability to improve in others.

There are also other things (hydration, diet, etc.) that can help you reach your goals.

Thank you so much for the clarification, and thank you for write this down.

It becomes clearer over time that Iā€™m in a horrible state of overtraining. Your absolutely right about that. And Iā€™m suspecting that I am overdoing the strength training program. I took a week of and it helped me stepping out of the ā€œlike to tear myself apartā€ syndrome. Today Iā€™ve done Half Monty with an expected 10% drop in FTP and MAP. And to be honest it felt good, because now I know life becomes easier.

Next up is 6 weeks of Transition Down, and after that Iā€™m going for a customized training plan with a SUF coach. In my case growth and rest is a thin line. And I canā€™t solve that on my own. Itā€™s to complicated to make the right decisions. For now fighting is over, itā€™s time to train smartā€¦

1 Like

I think you need to learn how to drink during workouts as well. IMHO, working out indoors and doing higher intensity plans and not drinking for the entirety of the session is not good. If you donā€™t have this skill itā€™s one you need to learn.

I drink during all my workouts, either gatorade and or just electrolyte mix in water, based on the length. I also eat things like fig newtons or cliff bars during longer workouts because thatā€™s what Iā€™d do on the road.

Truth be told, I want to start eating things like PBJā€™s during the workouts because that seems more fun than the other alternatives.

Additionally, and I canā€™t stress this enough, one thing that the sufferfest app will have issues catching due to the nature of how things are done (IMHO) is your ability to hold your power for longer. You can shift your CP curve over past the 20 minute mark which means you might be able to hold the same power for longer, which is definitely improvement, but you might not really know that just through the app. I donā€™t think this is the case for you but itā€™s something to keep in mind.

Thought Iā€™d use this thread to try and get some input on plan selection.

Currently I am doing the ToS prep plan advanced with yoga intermediate and strength beginner. Aim to complete ToS (nuclear? :exploding_head:), and have the week following ToS off (conveniently a holiday week). The week after I will do a FF prep plan ending in an FF.

After all this I am however a bit uncertain on which plan to choose. My options are All purpose road Advanced or Time trial Intermediate which by description appears to have about the same volume. I guess the main difference will be that APR will have a 3:1 week ratio, and 2:1 for the time trial. Looking at the plans however, the TT looks to have a bit more volume, but most of it appears to be outdoor at lower intensities.

As I am targeting a time trial in the beginning of June (most likely, but who knows these days) I guess the time trial is better tailored to my specific needs. My thoughts are nevertheless that the higher intensity of the APR might overall make me a faster cyclist which of course is a good thing.

The prep plan is my first actual plan, and although my numbers are not bad, I am counting on a continued planned approach to give me a better return on time invested and providing some major gains.

Youā€™ll likely see good gains from structured training in general.

If this is your first actual plan, it might be best to see how your body responds to structured training instead of picking the advanced plan to begin with. Yes the plan levels are set up based on time and not your overall experience, but structured training is very different than JRA and youā€™re better off finishing a plan as written instead of having to move things around due to fatigue and/or failing workouts if you canā€™t hit the targets.

Nothing stopping you from picking your next plan to have more volume (or the one after that even!). Much more useful to think of this as a long term goal than focus so hard on the return on time invested and put in more time with the expectation of more gains.

Maybe the coaches will say differently, but I donā€™t think Iā€™d recommend putting in more than an intermediate plan. If you have extra time, it might be better served than doing more during recovery (i.e. longer z2 rides from the inspiration category). If youā€™re new to structured training, youā€™re going to see pretty solid gains even from just the beginner plan, so the intermediate should be more than adequate.

Have you done a FF or HM yet at all?

Thanks for the reply @ridethecliche. I am quite certain that structured training will help me see significant gains, no worries there.

From the first week of ToS prep advanced I feel the body responds really well, and would really like to do more (but Iā€™ll stick with the plan, donā€™t worry). Although I have not had a structured plan before, I have had the intention and the plan, but not had the time. Still, I have had periods with rather high training loads and Iā€™m by no means scared by the volume or intensity APR Adv or TT intermed has to offer.

I did a FF a month ago, and found it quite enjoyable in a type 2-fun kind of way :wink:

Thereā€™s a big difference between doing a week of a structured plan vs doing a full plan. Periods of high training a while ago depend on what was contributing to that load and how long ago it was.

My point is that itā€™s usually recommended to work up to something instead of overloading. Just keep things in mind.

Good luck!

2 Likes

Thank you for bringing this to my attention, it is something I am aware of. It might be that I was not able to point the full picture in my previous posts; the last two years I have had 5-6 hours average per week (range 0-12 h/week), and although a fair bit of junk miles are included, there are also quite a few hours of high intensity intervals. Maybe recovery has the lower share of logged hours.

Thus, I think there is a low risk of overloading going to the APR advanced plan as recovery is even better talen care of in a structured plan. Hence the step up is not that big in my opinion (let me know if you disagree). If I had the time I would consider the TT advanced as well, but I donā€™t think I am able to fit the extra time required into my schedule.