There are 3 no-vid sessions called FTP Progressions. Obviously, one starts with the first, but when would I move up to the second one? After one session, after a week of training? Sorry if I missed the guidance when these were released.
Background: I am thinking of incorporating some no-vid workouts into my outdoor rides. Planning on mixing it up with some of other no-vids (40/20s) over-unders, FTP map builds. Just want to add some structure to my mornings while it is too hot in the pain cave…
I did them as part of the FTP block plan and it was one each Tuesday. Tough but good workouts!
Here is the guidance from when we released the FTP Progressions:
You should be getting comfortable with your fresh power numbers from your recent Full Frontal test and feel like you’re gaining strength and fitness from completing the first FTP Progression workout a few times. Version 2 has added one minute to the FTP intervals and removed a minute from the recovery sections, getting you closer to that final version of 5 x 8 min efforts with only 2 minutes recovery in between.
Say you want to incorporate his once or twice a week, I would stick with the same version for 3-4weeks before progressing to you next one. So if you were on a 12 week training block you would have:
- Start: FF and new 4DP numbers
- Weeks 1-4: FTP Progression 1: 5x6
- Weeks 5-8: FTP Progression 2: 5x7
- Weeks 9-12: FTP Progression 3: 5x8
- FF test
Please note there would be recovery weeks within this also.
@Coach.Rupert.H does this advice go against what’s in the building block plans then as in there it progresses through all three with one a week over three weeks.
Or have I missed the intended timing of when to do the blocks? i.e. are the building blocks only intended once you’ve fully adjusted to your existing FTP number?
There is never a one size fits all solution when it comes to fitness and training. I was basing the example on a 12 week plan and working with progressive overload to increase the intensity of the workouts as the plan progressed and you get fitter.
In a 3-4 week focused block, there is much less time so working through the progressions do happen more quickly. Here is our guidance on HOW TO USE THE BUILDING BLOCKS and you can see there are different reasons for applying plans at different times.
Hope that makes sense
Perfect, cheers!! I really liked the 4 week FTP block and those FTP Progressions in particular seemed like great workouts. As a series it’s good as mentally you can tell yourself it’s just another minute to what I did (ignoring the fact you do that extra minute five times and get less rest )
I am currently on week 3 of the FTP building block, made it through the FTP progression series. It was hard and each week after doing one I didn’t think I would make it through next week with another minute of effort and less recovery!
I think most of the issue for me is the mental aspect as there is nothing to focus on in the interval being no vid and no changes of intensity or cadence. The third one in the series this week gave me my highest hour wattage on the app.
As @aerobrain said I am really enjoying the building block too!
Sorry if this is under another topic but seems like a good place to ask. I just did FTP Progression 1: 5x6. I was able to maintain my power targets, but I was way below the HR targets. Looking at my numbers afterwards, I was in HR Zones 1-3 for 97% of the time, yet the targets during the Threshold segments was Z4. The only way I could get my HR up was to increase my cadence by about 10 RPM from the target (I typically average ~95 RPM) but still didn’t hit Z4 much. Is this OK? Intuitively, I think lower HR with effort is not something to complain about, but I’m doing this to get better, right? Does it mean I undershot my FF test? Etc. Any advice you can give would be helpful. Thanks!
I’ve been doing these over the last couple of months. I’ve just started the 4th progression: 4x10.
Once this is finished what would be the recommended increase to ride at your ‘new’ FTP for the test?
I’d just like a bit of guidance on how much above my FTP I should try and ride on the 4DP test.
I’m also trying to “progress” thought FTP progression series as a part of the building block (FTP). Excuse the pun.
The first one (6x5) sounded exactly as your sensation: easy. HR constantly under target.
The second was perfectly on target.
The third was tremendous.
I think that 5x6 is designed to make you familiar with new numbers given by recent FF.
5x7 is to settle down.
5x8 is for pushing yourself.
Last 4x10 is even harder. I think if you can handle this, you’re ready for another FF.
Keep in mind that heart rate is greatly influenced by various factors: environment, temperature, humidity, fatigue.
For example: i did yesterday 5x8 after ISLAGIATT of sunday and i felt not recovered enough.
I think they really give a nice boost. Very good training theme variation.
I have done the FTP Progressions twice. In both cases, in subsequent weeks.
I have found that in addition to doing a new FF or HM, trying to do 3x15 or 2x20 might be better. Depending on the type of riding you do, or want to do, being able to hold that FTP power for longer is just as important as increasing it.
The reason for this is that not every rider’s 20 minute power is a pure aerobic effort. For a large fraction of riders, there is a large anaerobic component to their 20 min effort so they cannot hold their “FTP power” for an hour.
When I did them I found them all fairly challenging. I think if you find any of them “easy” and your HR is way below the target zone, then it’s time for a FF or Half Monty test. Otherwise you are not going to get the intended workout.
But if your FTP is based on the FF test done properly, then you don’t really have much anaerobic capacity left by the time you get to the 20 min test! So it is a much more realistic test than most others that tend to flatter your FTP numbers, for the reason you stated.
In that case, the point is that your FTP is not your one hour power.
For endurance riders, your sustainable power for 1, 2, 3 hours or even longer is what matters.
For the purposes of Sufferfest (aka SUF, aka SYSTM) workouts, I use the FTP numbers from FF or HM because the workouts and plans are calibrated to those numbers.
For endurance rides outside I use my endurance power numbers from Xert, they seem much more reasonable.
Excellent feedback. I was a little worried I had underperformed in the FF test given it was my first. Based on this I will be patient and see how I progress thru the progression and then see how my next FF test goes. My guess is that the progressions will help me learn more about what I’m personally capable of and my effort during the next FF will be much more tuned. Thanks!
Absolutely. FTP is a power that people can hold from anything between 40-70 mins. FTP often gets mixed up with 1 hour power, but they can be a fair bit different. I can hold my FTP for about 40 mins and my 1 hour power is definitely lower.
I thought I would bump this thread. I’m on week 3 of the Threshold building block incorporating the FTP Progression workouts. To put it technically, I’m getting absolutely nailed.
I did this block exactly a year ago in the run up to Christmas 2020. My susbequent FF on 1st Jan saw some great gains. Whilst the Building Block was tough it was manageable. My last FF before starting it was about 6 weeks prior (so gains weren’t purely this block).
This time around I’m on fresh numbers from a HM immediately prior to starting the block but it’s killing me. My legs are dead and some of the workouts I’m not managing at all. ISLAGIATT the other day I bailed after 30mins (having already dialled down). I skipped the 2nd session in the Defender/GOAT double, and didn’t have time for Attacker or a 60min enduro ride at the weekend (family commitments, but I needed the break). I completed Power Station per almost all targets - no dialling down but had to stand on occasion when not instructed. I struggle with low cadence and I think my legs are struggling to get over that.
Honestly, I think Half Monty has overestimated things (I’m actually a TT rider type, but in my limited HM experience I’ve seen what I beleive is overestimate for me before) but I’m surprised just how much this is killing me.
What’s most gutting is that with my rider type and personal preference I thought I’d smash through these. Painfully, of course, but HHNF remains my favourite workout and I love holding on for dear life. Not so during this block. Grunter has well and truly run me over.
Has anyone else had experience like this of the threshold block/ftp progressions?
Looking forward to Christmas off!
EDIT: I’d note that I’m probably not as disheartened as this reads. Not all suffering is good suffering but all good suffering is still suffering. I’m not operating at the level HM thinks I should be but there’s still training stress going on. Just need to make sure I don’t bury myself too much.
@leebo I had this issue after my last Full Frontal. I struggled with some of the subsequent workouts but in hindsight I think it was a combination of other life stressors as well as some stress just thinking about the new numbers and not preparing for those workouts the way that I did for the fitness tests.
A few weeks later I am now feeling better. I would say just take your time and keep your head and body in the game. if you have to dial it down then do so. It is very difficult to keep peaking all of the time. I suggest doing what you can to get the workout done.
I’m not sure I’m at the point of “keep peaking all the time” ! but you are of course right. Maybe I should have stopped, had a rest week and hit it again.
My plan was to continue with some FTP type sessions, maybe a couple of ProRides and OnLocations up to Christmas, rest week then retest. I’ll probably stick with that but make sure I’m rested enough to make the most of them.
@leebo When was the last time you had a rest week? If more than 3 weeks ago I strongly suggest you take a recovery week so your body can reap the rewards of your training before you dig a hole that will take longer to get out of! Once you’ve had a recovery week, I suggest you retest with the 4DP Test.
As @JSampson said, you may have some additional stressors in your life at the moment that impacted your workouts combined with the the overestimated HM. I suggest you take care of yourself by tracking and establishing patterns of your morning metrics.
Unless racing/pro rides or executing a test, you really should not be finishing a workout feeling as though you have absolutely nothing left to give.